Episode Transcript
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Welcome to Infinite Human, where we explore our limitless potential through conversations with guests who have achieved greatness, overcome challenges, and work to find their purpose. We aim to share and inspire you to do the same.
I'm your host, Shona Kerr. I'm a college coach, professor, and businesswoman who is eager to learn from and sharing the wisdom of others with you.
And on to the show.
[00:00:52] Speaker B: Foreign.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: With us today is David Kendall. David is a writer, producer, and director who has worked in both television and film for decades. His credits include series for the broadcast networks, cable outlets, and streaming services.
He has produced and written for iconic sitcoms like ABC's Growing Pains and Boy Meets World, and has directed classic kids programs like Nickelodeon's Icarly and Disney Channel's Hannah Montana.
In terms of actors, David has worked with Oscar winners, Emmy winners, Tony winners, Grammy winners, professional wrestlers, adult film actors, Olympic gold medalists, and NFL hall of Famers.
With many family shows to his credit, he's directed scores of talented young actors from Ariana Grande to Zendaya, from Brad Pitt to Miley Cyrus. He has credits on over 40 different series. All told, that's over 600 episodes of television, 200 plus of them as a director.
David has been a visiting instructor at Wesleyan University, his alma mater, where he teaches a directing workshop. He continues his freelance directing career while also developing scripts for television and film. Enjoy the show.
Welcome, David Kendall, to Infinite Human.
[00:02:20] Speaker B: Thank you, Shona. Thank you.
[00:02:22] Speaker A: Thank you so much for being here. This is a true treat. We have literally a Hollywood legend that we're going to have the benefit of speaking with today and learning a little bit more about Hollywood and learning a little bit more about your background and how you got into your writing and directing and to some degree, acting career. And to help us demystify what that is for those of us that are on the outside of that.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Okay. It's safer on the outside. Okay.
[00:02:51] Speaker A: Without further ado, give us the. The elevator's pitch of where you're from and how you got to, you know, at least contemplating this career.
[00:03:01] Speaker B: Okay. Well, I just. I.
I wouldn't use the term legend. Just somebody who's been working for a while. So that's. That's pretty good.
I am a writer, producer and director working in Los Angeles, and I've done sitcom situation comedies for about 40 years. And I started out as a nice Jewish boy from the suburbs of Philadelphia. Ended up at Wesleyan University in Middletown, Connecticut, moved to New York, was there for a few years, ended up in Los angeles. And since 1985, I've been a member of the Writers Guild of America since 1990, a member of the Directors Guild of America. And I've done hundreds of episodes of dozens of different TV series, and it's been a lot of fun. How's that for the elevator? It's a long elevator ride.
[00:03:48] Speaker A: No, that's. That. That. That's perfect. We made it to the ground floor and.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Okay, good, good.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: Interestingly enough, as I was doing my research about you, I did the normal actions of using Google and searching the Internet. Interestingly enough, there is another David Kendall out there who. Who is using David E. Kendall.
[00:04:07] Speaker B: David E. Kendall? Yes.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: So as people go to look you up, which they should, because your body of work is so prolific, not just tv, but film also, they may find him there, too. You mentioned that you may have actually even met the other David Kendall.
[00:04:23] Speaker B: Yes. David E. Kendall is a prominent attorney in Washington, D.C. who handles both Bill and Hillary Clinton. He went to law school with them. And when I started to see his name in the newspapers in the 1990s, when Bill Clinton was president, I wrote him a letter and saying, if he ever, you know, reads about David E. Kendall, David and Kendall on television, that's not him. So we've corresponded with holiday cards, and when he's in la, we'll have dinner. When I'm in Washington, we'll have a meal. And he's a very smart guy. Anybody who has to handle matters for the Clintons has to be pretty sharp. So he's. He's amazingly bright. And it's just funny to sit at a restaurant and have the. The waiter bring over the check and you put down two cards to say David Kendall. And he always says, I'm the senior David Kendall, so I will pay, so I don't mind. Yes. So that's the tale of David E. Kendall, him and David N. Kendall. Me. So, yes, if you Google David Kendall television, I'll come up. If you just do Google David Kendall, David E. The attorney will come up.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: I love that story. I love the fact that you both connected.
[00:05:30] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. He's as amused as I am to have another name. His name there. Yeah.
[00:05:36] Speaker A: So what does a director's day look like?
[00:05:40] Speaker B: You know, it depends if he's employed or not or if she's employed or not. Yes, we'll talk about an employed day. Well, let me just back up a little bit.
As both a writer and a director, they're kind of. I'll just treat them as separate things. If you're a writer, especially on television, especially on a staff you're working in a group, and depending who is running the show, where you are in that food chain, as a writer becomes writer, producer becomes someone who can run the show. You're either part of the team rowing or, you know, at the head of the line saying, where. Which direction we're going to go. So that's a very different world than if you are a director who is solo there on stage trying to find out the best way to congeal all the elements that are in the script into kind of actions and camera shots and communicating with the director, with the actors and your entire crew. So that is a whole different.
A whole different world. So I say that writing is a lot more satisfying, but directing is a lot more fun.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: And I guess it's nice to have both.
[00:06:47] Speaker B: Oh, it's very nice. It's very nice to have both. It's very nice to have a. When you're directing, to have the writer's head in you and to kind of get inside and imagine what the writers were thinking and being able to dive deeper. I've had. I tried to. Since I came from a writer background to the directing chair, I wanted to be the writer's director and get every single ounce of what was there in the script and even try and dig more and kind of, if there's more jokes to be found, to mine them. If there are moments to be had, to mine them. And to make it easier for the writer producers to see where I can protect you in editing there. Let's say the script is too long. I'm getting really into the weeds right now, right away. But if it's fascinating, please, if a script is too long, and after a few years of doing this, I kind of know where you might want to cut. Even though it's not my role as the director who's a hired hand to decide where to edit a scene, I can sometimes, depending on the level of communications, I can say, just in case you want to start the scene here, I've given you a camera shot that will allow you to start the scene later. And if I don't have that kind of relationship, I can do it anyway. Because I know that a few months from now, when the show is three minutes long, that they'll be able to find a way in. That's if you're the freelance director who's kind of there as the hired hand.
If you're a writer and, let's say, on staff of a television show, it's a whole different deal because I'll put myself in the Role of the showrunner, executive producer. You have, let's say a 10 episode season and you have to spin plates simultaneously. You have to get the outlines ready for the next script that are going to be produced in a couple months. You have a show that's on the stage that is probably in decent shape, but you had to recast. So you're going to have to accommodate the new actor who's coming in and the new pages to, to satisfy the network's needs to see more of this relationship and or some jokes need a little bit of help. So you've, you know, been punching up the jokes and, and adding them so they can be incorporated into the show. So it's, I've been asked, you know, when you're running a television show as a producer, what's a typical day? And the answer is there is no typical day. There's a million things to do and the production is eating your script. So it's coming after you like, you know, Pac man, getting closer and closer and you have to stay ahead because if you don't feed it scripts, it'll eat you.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: So yeah, it's a great analogy and I love that you're digging in and trying to, you know, help us understand that process and how the flow goes. How, as a director, do you prepare for an upcoming show that you may be part of?
[00:09:40] Speaker B: Well, let me answer as because I've created shows, I've run shows, I've been kind of the staff director where I direct most of the episodes of a series and I've been a lot of the hired hand. A lot of times in television there'll be, say there's a 10 episode season and they'll hire a few different directors who are in the rotation to come in. And when I have taught directing, I try to say that this is the most likely scenario where you will get hired. So let me prepare you to be the guest director or the hired hand and just kind of what you need to do. Because it's a very weird thing if you come in and the show is up and running and let's say it's the second or third season and everybody on the crew, all the actors have lived, breathed, eaten the show. I can't remember the tense they've been. It's the show is through them for, you know, 70, 80 hours a week and you're coming in for an episode and say, hey, I'm going to tell everybody here what to do. Even though they've been doing it for three years and you know, it's like you're the guest spouse. It's like you have to come in and kind of ride this. So you have to prepare. So getting back to your question is, how do you prepare? You watch a lot of the shows. You hopefully can hang out on the set and see how the actors work, how the producers work with the actors, and then what? I tell everyone who is getting their first or early break as a director, that the first thing you need to do is read the script. And then read the script, and then read the script, and then read the script a few times, because you need to know everything that's in the. That script. You need to know what's happening during the action, during the dialogue, during the stage directions, what happened right before. Where are these characters coming from? If there's a scene where the character isn't on camera for a few scenes, what happened to her during that? Why is she coming in with this attitude? And if it should be there in the script, if it's not, make it up. Or talk to the producers so that you understand every single moment of the script. And I borrowed a phrase I heard an orchestra conductor say once that you should have the score in your head. So you don't have your head in the score. So know that script better than anybody. So. Because everything, especially in television and especially if you're the person who were there, you know, just as the hired hand, know that script. There's a saying amongst the Directors Guild that. That your first directing assignment is the job interview. So you know, you want to. You want to do well at your job interview.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: So there's a lot more work that goes into. Into that one show by the director than perhaps any of the actors. It's. I like your orchestral analogy.
[00:12:26] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. Well, the actors, you know, if they're. If they're there at the beginning, they've already done a lot of the work that you have. If you're. You have to get up to speed with them. You have to meet the actors where they are. You have to meet the show where it is and watch the show. Observe as much as you can, talk to as many people as you can. You know, walk the fine line between being persistent and thorough and annoying. You have to. That's a fine line, you know, and.
[00:12:55] Speaker A: On the writing side. So flip to the writing side. What is your process there? You're in a. You writing in teams. You said it's kind of like Pac man, and they're chewing up the script. So how do you stay ahead of it? What is that process?
[00:13:09] Speaker B: I'll imagine a show from the beginning of a television season. I'll pretend you already got the order that you wrote the pilot and it gets ordered and you're doing your 10 episodes. It's you assemble your writing staff and in theory there's a showrunner and like a number two person and you're working in tandem to figure out what the show is, what is the show that you're doing, what is the key dynamic that you're selling, what are the relationships that you're selling, what got your show ordered. If you are doing a television show and you want it to be about one character and the network thinks it's about this other character or the actor thinks it's about them, it's like, are you doing the same show? You always get in trouble when you're not doing the same show. If for whatever reason someone wants it to be an ensemble, someone wants it to be a two hander, someone wants it to be a star vehicle, you gotta figure that out. And when you know what dynamic you're selling and who your characters are, you can figure out what stories that you're trying to sell and trying to convey. And I did a show for now, it's called Freeform. The ABC network cable network called Melissa and Joey, which was very specifically designed as a romantic comedy. And our two stars where Melissa Joan Hart and Joey Lawrence, who grew up as TV stars in the 80s and 90s as child actors and became very successful, wonderful adult actors and very skilled in sitcom. And so we were doing a romantic comedy for them in the tradition of a lot of, you know, will they work, will they, won't they, you know, romantic tension back and forth, one step forward, one step back. So we knew what the mission was, is to show them in conflict with little bit of romantic sparks and a little bit of one step forward, one step back. So, and we had dug into what their backstories were and where they came from, which gave us a nice sense of what the friction would be between them, and just started laying out what are the possibilities and what these two people do for a living. Where are they in conflict? What are kind of nice moments that can turn into stories? And what you always try and do is make it something that you can relate to, whether or not it's your own life experience, you can find things that you can relate to. If you're doing a family show, if you're doing a romantic comedy, the more truth you can bring or the more truth you can fake, the easier it'll be. And the better it'll be your scripts and your acting and what, what you're selling.
[00:15:42] Speaker A: So how did you become a specialist in family comedic shows? What drew you that direction? How did that happen? So how did you become a specialist in comedic family shows?
[00:15:54] Speaker B: Don't worry. Okay, so this is 1985. There's a very successful show called the Cosby Show. I say, you know, I think I can do this. So I wrote a sample script through more social connections than anything else. I had a contact with an agent who sent it out to a Hollywood studio at Warner Brothers. And they read the script and they liked it. And in a really unlikely lightning bolt, my script got passed along to the people who were producing the show, Growing Pains, a new show that just got in order. I went in and I had an interview after they read my script and I got an eight week staff job and that lasted for six years. They kept rehiring me and I worked for really wonderful, wonderful bright people. Learned so much. And so for six years I was like my undergraduate in graduate school in, in television, in, in sitcoms and worked my way up through the producing ranks. And I came out of that learning or knowing so much about sitcoms. And it was 1980s. Family shows were really, really big. And I came from a family, so I kind of got it and felt it. We had a great cast and we had a great core group of writers. And it was amazing to me that my first job in television ended up being a six year run on a very successful show. But since then I've been beaten up and dragged through the mud. So it's not like that was a glide path forever. So. But that was a great way to start.
[00:17:22] Speaker A: Yeah, incredible. Obviously that was a turning point for you.
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Oh yeah.
[00:17:26] Speaker A: And that script being picked up. I'm curious, what were the other turning points in your career as you went along and how did you make the decisions you ultimately ended up making?
[00:17:36] Speaker B: Well, having Growing Pains was just, that was, that was everything that did everything for me, career wise. And after that I had a development deal at Warner Brothers where, where Growing Pains was done and I failed spectacularly. I had a deal and I didn't get anything on the air. I got a couple pilots ordered, but nothing was ordered to series. And then I went on to work on to run a show for two years called Boy Meets World, which is. Was a family show in the 90s into the early aughts. Also really successful show on the same network, a very different show because it was more about the ensemble than the family. But Also a family show with a lot of heart and a lot of jokes. And so I ran that show for two years, and after being on Growing Pains and understanding production and how it worked, I still had this itch to direct. I really wanted to direct. There's the joke about the performing Seal that says, what I really want to do is direct. I mean, everybody wants to direct. So not a pretty common thing. But when I got to Boy Meets World, I was in the position to hire myself for a couple directing slots for the two years that I ran it. And then after the show, my two years there, I left to develop shows and had some. Some success, some not success. And then the people who took over for me in running the show hired me to come back and direct a few episodes. So I got into the rotation of Boy Mesh World. And that was great because I went into an environment where people knew me, where I knew everyone. So I had enough opportunities to direct and really learn and get better at it. It wasn't like, I'm going to come in and do this once. I think I did 12 or 13 episodes over a few years. So I got into the rotation of directing, and what I say is, if my directing career went from, okay, I'm going to hire myself, all right, Then friends are going to hire me, and then strangers are going to hire me based on reputation and how well my shows turn out. So that was my directing career that started at the end of Running Boy Moose World, which was in the early. Early to mid-90s. I did that. And then from that.
This is something that I think is very important for anybody who wants a career with longevity is reinvention and finding different things to do. As writer, producer, director, I had a lot of success. And then as just a director, I had some success. And then it's like, okay, let me try my hand in writing long form and writing movies. And I've had success at that, too, which is interesting, because at some point in we're talking about 07 08, I'd written some TV movies with a friend who I'd known from Boy Meets World. And from that we wrote a romantic comedy for the network and were invited to pitch for to do a sitcom. And it was Melissa and Joey with Melissa Joan Hart and Joey Lawrence. So my path to writing movies and a direct and a romantic comedy led me back into television and doing sitcoms. So I got that job with my friend Bob Young. We created the show and I did five years on Melissa and Joey and we did 104 episodes. There so it's just, you know, reinvention, reinvention. And then from that, I've done a lot of directing of a lot of family and kids shows on Disney and Nickelodeon and directed a couple pilots. So it's just, you know, reinvention, keep going. If you're. If you're going to be hot, you're going to at one point not be hot. So if things are going to go really well, at some point, things are going to go not so well. And you try different things, you write different things. If you're a writer, you write different things. If you have a network of friends, see if they need help or collaboration or working on their scripts. And it's just there's no one way. But you got to keep moving. And reinvention is kind of a theme anybody who's got a long career has had to reinvent.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: No, I think that's a point well taken. And I'm sure you get asked a lot, what advice do you have for young people trying to get into the business? And maybe there is no one way.
[00:21:34] Speaker B: There is no one path is different. It's really interesting to hear people's origin stories. I mean, I've talked to people and given people advice, and they've not taken my advice, and it's worked out great for them. So it's just. It's all a broken play. And right now, it's very, very tough. Right now with the contraction that's going on in Hollywood after the strikes and now I think the city isn't kind of in shock after the fires, but that's a whole other subject. It's. It's very tough. What I say to people who want to write is just keep writing. Write stuff. At some point, if you want to write, somebody will say, what do you have that I can read? And you gotta. You don't want to say, oh, you know what? I'm working on something that'll be done really soon. You say, okay, where can I send it to you? And I'll hit send, you know, in an hour so they can read your stuff. And if you're interested in production. When I was starting out, nobody had high def cameras and editing machines in their pocket and just go in the backyard. It's the same. Make a short film, put it up on YouTube. I don't know TikTok. People are getting jobs from TikTok. That's still strange and foreign to me. But, you know, you got to keep doing stuff if you want to be a filmmaker. You make films, you want to Be a writer. You write and you get it out there and you need to be lucky, but you need to be persistent. So that's my 20 seconds of advice.
[00:22:54] Speaker A: I guess you make your own luck to some extent to say positioning yourself. It sounds like an industry where it does ebb and flow a little bit. You're in the middle of a big job.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: Oh, it always ebbs and flow. Yeah. There's no tenure track. There is no tenure track.
[00:23:07] Speaker A: That's right. And, but, but it sounds, what I'm hearing is in the down times, there's. Those are the opportunities. Hey, let's get together with a friend and create a new show. Let's find a new way to shoot something that would be interesting here.
[00:23:20] Speaker B: When someone sells a dream project, it was, why are you doing? Well, I was unemployed and I figured I'd try this and nobody liked it at first and nobody wanted to buy it and here I am and it's what happens.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Got you. What are maybe some of your favorite career moments and what made them memorable?
[00:23:38] Speaker B: Well, what I'm most proud of is my longevity. To have had a career that spans 40 years is, I think an accomplishment. So that's been kind of the thing I'm most proud of. People ask, you know, have you had a dream project? And I've had a lot of fun and a lot of success, but I consider myself like a genre guy for comedy. And if I'm working and if I got a script that's funny or working on a show where I have, you know, good actors and a good staff that's like there's no three or four mountains. There's just lots of really high points. So. And I've worked on shows that I, that I just adore. Growing Pains was a highlight. Boy Meets World was a highlight. Doing some really successful iconic kid shows like Icarly and Hannah Montana were great moments. I did a show right before COVID called Ashley Garcia which is on Netflix and I think that's as good a work as I've ever been a part of. And the show only lasted 16 episodes, but it's still going to run forever there on Netflix.
And that was a career highlight. So I'm fortunate to have many. And when I love the multi camera show, I love sitcoms with a live audience. When you are watching, producing and there during the three hours of the taping and you see that the show is really cooking in front of the audience and you get real genuine laughs and they're following the stories and you've worked on it during the week and rehearsed it. But there you are in front of 180 strangers who are laughing. Real laughs. And the performances are better by virtue of being in front of the audience. That is an amazing high. That is an amazing high.
[00:25:14] Speaker A: Even as you're saying that, I can feel it like filling your soul.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. A multi camera sitcom is done in a five day week. You read the first script on Monday, you start to rehearse it Tuesday and Wednesday and refine the script on Thursday. Day four of day five. Day four of the fifth day is the cameras come in and you choreograph it in front of the cameras. And then day five, the audience comes in. 5pm we go out there and the actors deliver the lines. And when it's cooking, it's the best.
[00:25:46] Speaker A: Understood. As a college sports coach, that schedule sounds not dissimilar to myself. Early week, we're, we're working on some fundamentals. Maybe we start getting into the weeds a little bit more now. We're ready now. Come the weekend we compete and in front of an audience and if it goes well and you're getting the wins. And so it's interesting to see some of the parallels in these different worlds. But you've worked with an awful lot of actors in your time, both in TV and in film.
[00:26:19] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:26:19] Speaker A: I mean, way too numerous to even list. But were there, were there some that stood out for you, some that you really enjoyed directing and, you know, made it enjoyable for you?
[00:26:30] Speaker B: As someone who's done a lot of family shows, I've had to, I've gotten to work with young actors and sometimes you can identify when someone has it. And I'll do some name dropping because that can be fun for people. Yes. Okay. We gave this young man from Oklahoma who drove this beat up Datsun one of his first jobs. His name was Brad Pitt. When Brad Pitt walked on stage, it, you could, you got it. You could sell. My goodness, this guy has magnetism. This guy is so appealing. This guy has charisma. Nobody was surprised that a couple years later that Brad was this huge star. But you know, back in Growing Pains, he was so grateful for the job, he baked cookies for the casting director. I don't think he probably does that now. Maybe after he wins Oscars, I don't know.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: But he is this. Maybe he'll get back to it.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: Maybe he will. Maybe he's. He has. Yeah. He hasn't returned my calls in a while, so maybe he will now.
And I did this Disney show called Stuck in the middle.
And when did we do that? 20, 18, 19.
And the lead of Stuck in the Middle was this young actress named Jenna Ortega, who now is everywhere. And Jenna was so good, so smart at 14, 15, 16. Everybody who worked with her was just saying, okay, she's going to be a big star in let's say 10, 9 and bam, she's in every movie. She was Wednesday in the Netflix show. It's just terrific and just so smart and comes from a great family. It's just so happy for her. You know, I, I think in my bio it says I've worked from A to Z with actors like Ariana Grande to Zendaya. So it's just, it's been fun to just see these young people and watch them just take off and, and it rockets. It's great. Seeing Ariana on the big screen in Wicked was just so wonderful, Just so.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: Wonderful, you know, very gratifying. And it's interesting you talk about that it factor. You kind of, you can't describe it, but you know when you see it.
[00:28:34] Speaker B: Yeah, I remember doing Hannah Montana with Miley Cyrus and you could just see she, when the audience was there, she just, there was something that kicked in some adrenaline and, and it was just, okay, this is, she's gonna be big. She's gonna, you know. Yeah, you have no idea that someone's gonna be, you know, a global icon. And, and but you just get the sense of, oh boy, this person really has it right.
[00:28:58] Speaker A: And like you say, there's this luck involved in this industry.
[00:29:00] Speaker B: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, there's luck. Yeah.
[00:29:02] Speaker A: You know, if that person in front of you, you see, has that talent, then that, that is exciting and over your career to actually follow these, these actors and their journeys. You've been around long enough to see.
[00:29:13] Speaker B: That, which is, yeah, it's really very gratifying. It's very, it's really fun. It's really cool, you know, to see. I mean we worked with, on a couple of Nickelodeon shows with Austin Butler who was, became Elvis and which was wild because he's like the most blonde person that you've ever met. And, and there's Austin and he's. I think he got an Academy Award now. Anyway, he was great in Elvis and you know, this skinny blonde 15 year old is playing Elvis Presley and he was amazing. Yeah.
[00:29:42] Speaker A: So I work at Wesleyan University and we'll talk about how we ended up connecting it in a bit. But at Wesleyan University in Connecticut, known for its film studies program and a lot of successful people have come from that program. What was your experience in relation to that and how has it served you?
[00:30:03] Speaker B: Well, you can't talk about the Wesleyan Film Program without talking about Janine Basinger. And Janine Basinger recently retired. And Janine is just a legend, a mentor, still one of my dearest friends. I talked to her a couple days ago, and she was the crazy film lady at the end of the campus who told us that we can do this, that said, people have these jobs out there. Why. Why not you? She was the.
The spark, the mentor, the person who says, you know, you folks can do this. And I'm going to answer in a roundabout way. When people have asked me, what's wrong with movies and TVs, how come they suck? How come so many are so bad? And my answer is a little simplistic, but has some truth in it, is that there are so many people in it who don't love it.
I mean, you're gonna do good television if you love it. You're gonna do bad television if you don't love it. I mean, I'm oversimplifying. And when people come out of Wesleyan through the program, through Janine's vision and imprint, is, you know, that when you get a. We meet a Wesleyan alum, that they're gonna really love films, they're gonna love it. And that's, you know, she put that spell on me and so many others. And that's why going back and doing the teaching and being in this big, new, gigantic, state of the art building with Jeanine Baizinger center for Film Studies on the front is just so wonderful. But you can't talk about the Wesleyan Film Program without what Janine did for it and basically willing it into existence, willing that building into existence and encouraging so many people. I mean, if you talk to anybody who came through there who had her as a teacher, you'll hear similar things from what I'm spilling out right now. And the people that you meet and connect with who are kind of going through the same things. I'm still very close to people that I was there with Wesleyan. And as an undergraduate, you kind of bond. And when I've been back teaching, I've been telling these students, you will be connecting with these people who you're working with now. And, you know, my friend Ed Dector, who I was class of 79 with me, you know, we made our student films together. And a bunch of years ago, we made a Hollywood movie together called the New Guy, a teen comedy that Ed directed that I wrote. And it's Just, you know, one day we're in the basement of the film center, or it wasn't even the film center then, the basement of one of those big gray buildings at the end of campus. And now here we are making a movie for Sony. So, you know, it can happen.
[00:32:33] Speaker A: It's, it's incredible. And as you're alluding to, it's come full circle because you've been back the last three years to teach an intensive course in January for, for a couple weeks, I believe, based on helping film studies students directing actors and how to actually truly work with an actor. I'm dying to hear how are the new budding directors for today? And have you been able to cast Janine's spell onto these young folks and pay this forward?
[00:33:00] Speaker B: I hope so. I don't know. Only time will tell.
[00:33:03] Speaker A: That's right.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: But I've been very fortunate. The current Chairman of Film Studies, Scott Higgins, is a good friend of mine. He took over when Janine ameritized and he kind of convinced me that these kids really don't know how to talk to actors or kind of be on a set and kind of drafted me, recruited me. And I've been so fortunate to have these amazing students because this is during the winter session. This is like a three week break between semesters. I have them for two and a half weeks and it's an intensive course. They're with me 10am to 4pm every day and we shoot scenes on the weekends. So anybody who's going to volunteer to do that and destroy their winter break and be on an empty campus and hang out with me and listen to me for this time, it's a self selecting group of students and it's been since the first year pretty popular course. So there's, it's, there's been a waiting list and so we have been preferring the seniors and the film majors and I've been real lucky and I designed these exercises and directing and try and strip down to just the essence of directing. Talking to actors, pointing the camera and doing exercises. It's been very gratifying to see them do their exercises over these two and a half weeks and say, oh, they're getting better. And they feel that they're getting better too. So I'm not sure if I've cast a spell or just kind of given a toolkit or two, a toolbox to these young folks, but it's been very gratifying.
[00:34:33] Speaker A: One thing I do know about Wesleyan students is they're pretty passionate. They're passionate about what they do And I have no doubt that you have enhanced that passion. There's no way you haven't. And I guess we can now call you Professor Kendall.
[00:34:47] Speaker B: No, you can't. Because professor is an earned title that people with graduate degrees have. It's. It sounds very weird to be called Professor. I'm not going to stop you. But it's just. Just the first week I spend unlearning them or telling them not to call me professor. That's the first week of. That's the most important thing, the first week. So, yeah, it just feels weird because I know people have various degrees and have earned academic distinction. I'm just a, you know, an old comedy writer trying to tell stories of war stories, you know?
[00:35:16] Speaker A: Well, you're incredibly humble. I want to just take you back to your days as a student at Wesleyan. And the way we met was through a mutual friend, Brian O'Rourke, who for many years. There it is, O'Rourke's Diner. The owner and chef at O'Rourke's Diner since 1941, Middletown, Connecticut. People would drive hundreds of miles just to come have Brian's breakfast on a weekend. And there's always a line out the door. Brian is since recently retired from the diner, which is sad, but we've been so grateful for all the years he put in in the Wesleyan community.
[00:35:52] Speaker B: Yes, if anyone deserves retirement, it's Brian O'Rourke. Yes.
[00:35:57] Speaker A: Not a truer word spoken. But I really want to hear what that diner meant to you as a student and where that fit in your experience.
[00:36:05] Speaker B: That's a great thing to talk about. When I was an undergraduate, back in the late 70s, a thousand and five years ago, O'Rourke's was 24 hours.
The diners, 24 hours. So we're making our films and we're finishing at 1, 2, 3 in the morning. And, you know, you're hungry and you're young and you have this energy. I don't know where it comes from or where it goes. So let's go down to our works. And I believe his cousin John was the night guy, and then Brian was the day guy. And they had kind of day and night personalities, too, but that's a whole other deal. And it was just a great place to hang out during daylight, too. We got to know Brian really well, and it was just great to have, you know, your place. I think in the 70s, it wasn't as popular with Wesleyan students and Wesleyan professors as it came to be in later years. So it felt like it was our place. And, excuse me, it really felt like it was our place. So every time I was back on campus, I made it a point to go down to O'Rourke's. And when my daughter, who just graduated in Wesleyan from May, one of the first visits we came to was just going to O'Rourke's. And I have a cousin named Bob Gelb who lives in New York, lives on Long Island. And every year he would come up to Connecticut for a golf tournament and I'd say, well, you gotta stop by O'Rourke's if you're near Middletown. So Brian and my cousin Bob became friends and golfed together. And it's just kind of fun, just the extension of, you know, when you meet Brian and you hang out, he's like the easiest person to become friends with and one of the most generous, big hearted, wonderful human beings of the earth. So it's just been great to feel his reach. How did you get. Tell me your connection with Brian.
[00:37:51] Speaker A: Well, he's a big Wesleyan athletic supporter and fan. And when I first started working at Wesleyan, he would always be in the building. So I would introduce myself and say, hey, you ever want to learn how to play squash, I'm here. And it took him a few years, but he came to his senses and has subsequently become a really big fan of the squash program. I don't think he's missed a home match yet this season in a similar way that it felt very home like to be in his diner. It feels right when he's at a squash match with us. And like you say, his reach has, is so extensive. And now I know they've actually filmed quite a lot of student movies and all kinds of things at the diner as well. I don't know. Did you ever.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: Yeah, we did one, one of the films that we made senior year with my, my friends, our little pack, we shot some scenes in the diner and. And Brian had a. Had a part in it and as did I had a small part. And that's about the only acting I've done. You started saying that I've done. I haven't done a lot of acting. So.
But I was in a student film at O'Rourke's. And one other wonderful story about Brian to me is after the diner, after he retired and the diner closed last year when I landed in Middletown to do my teaching, I texted him, I said, without Oorks, where am I going to have breakfast? And he texted back, my apartment. So when I've been back there, we'll have breakfast at his place. And he's, I get to go to O'Rourke's a privilege.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: You get the real Brian's breakfast.
[00:39:22] Speaker B: Breakfast, yes.
[00:39:23] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. That's a step up. That's.
[00:39:25] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:39:26] Speaker A: Privilege afforded to few. So you're very.
[00:39:29] Speaker B: I'm very honored and humbled by that. And. Yeah, that's why I have the mugs proudly in my kitchen. Okay, There it is.
[00:39:37] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: Okay, yeah.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Let's say you could sit at the diner, Zoe Rourke's diner. And you could sit at the diner with any four humans, alive or not. You've worked with so many actors, met so many people. Who would that be?
[00:39:50] Speaker B: Oh, that's tough.
That's really tough.
Well, there was one time at the diner where Clint Eastwood was there, so that. But that was, that was a real thing. And so that was not like fantasy. Okay. You know, I don't know. Okay. Living. Living or dead? So Groucho Marx, Billy Wilder, Paul McCartney. He's still alive. I don't know. That's a. Oh, Louis Armstrong. I would love to hang out with Louis Armstrong. I would love to hang out with Louis Armstrong.
[00:40:19] Speaker A: With trumpet or without trumpet?
[00:40:23] Speaker B: I think without. I just. The man singing is just not of this earth. I think he was a prophet and an angel. So an amazing person. So.
[00:40:34] Speaker A: Yeah, sorry to put you on the spot.
[00:40:36] Speaker B: Great example that you chose. Yeah, I'll keep thinking about that one because that's tough. Yeah.
[00:40:42] Speaker A: So as we wrap this up here, 40 years is an incredible amount of time and like you say, a huge achievement. What is next in your career and what is your purpose from here and what are your hopes? What legacy do you want to leave?
[00:40:57] Speaker B: Well, that's a tough one because right now the business is at kind of a crossroads and series television has really changed and shrunk. And I came up in the days where you could have a 22 episode season and now 8 and 10 episodes are the season. And I don't know how much longer I'll want to do this because it's. The business has contracted and it's, it's. It seems less fun for everyone. And just again, after the strikes and after the fires, I think that the LA is kind of is just going through its own trauma. So, you know, I don't know. I mean, right now I'm starting to write some things on my own that are just things that I'm excited about. And that's usually the best way to kind of get new energy or reinvent yourself. So we'll see what the next year brings. But, you know, the strikes over in 23 kind of led to a real contraction in 24, and now with 25. So the. I'm just trying to write what I'm excited about and then see what happens. So. But it's just.
It's a. It's a little bit of a bread upon the waters business, too. It's like, you never know who's going to call you and just say, remember, we did this together, or, I'm now doing this. I had that happen at times that are just wonderful. It's just like, yeah, you directed this a few years ago, and we're doing something like this. The important thing is to do your own work and get about things that you're excited about. I mean, I have no idea what's going to happen. I mean, if. If it's only a few more years and a few more things of doing this, that's fine, because 40 is a lot. I don't know. And it's been fun to teach. I don't know if I'll do that more. I have a nice toe in the teaching world, so. But I'll want to be able to do what I do and share what I know.
Is that an answer?
[00:42:40] Speaker A: I'm sure there's a lot that people can learn from you and your experience, and you shun the professor title, but, you know, maybe that's in there. Maybe that's.
[00:42:49] Speaker B: Maybe, maybe, maybe. I have to earn it. I feel like I can't just get it by virtue of teaching one thing, but we'll see. Yeah.
[00:42:56] Speaker A: So anyway, David, this has been just a thrill and such a treat to speak with you, and I can't thank you enough for doing it.
[00:43:02] Speaker B: Sure. No, it's just been fun. It's been fun. I get to talk and have someone ask me smart questions and be listened to. It's kind of cool.
[00:43:11] Speaker A: Thank you for the legacy of entertainment that you've left us. It's really impressive when you start reading through your body of work. And now I have a whole list of new things to watch, which I'm excited about.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: Oh, good, good, good, good. Yes, I, you know, I've over 600 episodes of television over 40 years. That's a lot.
[00:43:27] Speaker A: That's some homework.
[00:43:28] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I can tell you which ones to skip. There are few you can skip.
[00:43:33] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:43:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:43:34] Speaker A: All right. Well, thank you so much and, you know, best of luck with everything you do moving forward.
[00:43:39] Speaker B: Okay. Thank you. And you too, Shauna. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank.
[00:43:46] Speaker A: This has been ultimate human with me, Shona Kerr. Until next time, keep challenging yourself and make others better along the.
