Episode Transcript
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Welcome to Infinite Human, where we explore our limitless potential through conversations with guests who have achieved greatness, overcome challenges and work to find their purpose. We aim to share and inspire you to do the same.
I'm your host, Shona Kerr.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: I'm a college coach, professor and businesswoman.
[00:00:40] Speaker A: Who is eager to learn from and sharing the wisdom of others with you.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: And onto the.
[00:00:53] Speaker C: Foreign.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Today on Infinite Human, we welcome Laura Trevelyan. Laura has worked as an international journalist, covering major war zones, peace treaties and more recently, the January 6th attack on the US Capitol building, 2020.
Her last position was working as a news anchor for BBC World, where she retired to focus on slavery reparations in the Caribbean, notably in Grenada, where she discovered family ties to being slave owners.
Rather than bury this fact, she has boldly put it in the open to acknowledge the atrocities of the time, her family's part, and is addressing what reparations.
[00:01:36] Speaker B: Should look like through advocacy.
[00:01:38] Speaker A: She has sparked conversations government wide. Laura was recently given the honour of being named Chancellor of Cardiff University in Wales, and we are honoured that she is talking with us today.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: Welcome, Laura Trevelyan. It's a pleasure to have you here. I am so thrilled that you've made time for this.
[00:01:56] Speaker C: Shona, it's a pleasure. Anything for you. Having seen you coach our son and his friends at Wesleyan and seen what a terrific job you did, you know I'll always do anything for you.
[00:02:07] Speaker B: Too kind. And for those who are hearing this, Laura, it's just been announced Chancellor of Cardiff University, which I cannot believe we share this. We both went to Cardiff University. Who knew?
[00:02:20] Speaker C: No, it's amazing. I did my post grad journalism course there and I was there in the early 90s. When were you there, Shona?
[00:02:27] Speaker B: I was there 95 to 98, 99. I studied music, did my undergraduate music degree there and then I was actually the Athletic Union president for a year after I graduated, so that was my Cardiff experience.
[00:02:43] Speaker C: Did you play squash at Cardiff?
[00:02:45] Speaker B: Of course I played squash at Cardiff, yes, I did, but more interesting. Well, I want to know. I know where it all started, frankly, and I know it's a trite question, but where were you born and what were the beginnings? What did that look like?
[00:02:57] Speaker C: I was born in London in 1968 in the now defunct City of London Maternity Hospital in Islington, and I grew up in North London in Camden Town, and I went to state schools in London. I went to a little primary school that I loved, loved, called Brecknock School, which was, looking back on it, you know, incredibly mixed school. Not that I knew it at the time. Socioeconomically, racially. Classic Inner London Primary school. And then I went to a girls school called Parliament Hill Girls School, which again, was a state school. And then I went to Bristol University, where I was first of all studying English, but I didn't really like it because it was all Beowulf, which is medieval English, for those who don't know. So I switched into the politics department and then became, you know, even more interested in current affairs and started doing student journalism and then went to Cardiff to do a postgrad. So that's where it all began.
[00:03:53] Speaker B: That's where it all began. What were your interests as a kid? What were you into?
[00:03:57] Speaker C: Well, I had a little newspaper that was called the Cantlows Gleaner, which I typed out on my typewriter, which was about goings on on our street. So I guess I was always curious about the world.
I liked to run, did quite a lot of running at school on Parliament Hill, and I would have liked to play tennis more than I did. I've taken it up as an adult and, you know, my parents got divorced when I was quite young, so I was the oldest child, so I did quite a lot of, you know, being what the. What the shrinks would call the parental child, doing a lot of shuttle diplomacy between my parents, looking after my siblings, that kind of thing. So I was quite responsible, I would say, from an early age.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: And what kind of student were you?
[00:04:49] Speaker C: You know, I was a girly swat. I was a good student.
[00:04:52] Speaker B: It's obviously served you well and curious to see how you got to make the, you know, the career decisions you did. Well, I guess. When did you. When did you know this Journalism, politics? When did you know that was a path that. That had really gripped you?
[00:05:08] Speaker C: Well, I guess, you know how it is when you come to the end of university and you think, what am I going to do at that terrible moment? What am I going to do? How am I going to earn a living? So at that final year when I was at Bristol, I shadowed a barrister, so Americans wouldn't really know what a barrister is, but a lawyer being the lawyer that argues the case in court. So I went to what's called Barristers Chamber in London, and I think, I guess that Easter before graduation, and it seemed interesting, but it didn't seem as interesting as journalism. And while I was there, I learned that I got into Cardiff Journalism School, so that felt like the right thing to do. You know, the law had seemed interesting. And in a way there are parallels between the Law and journalism. You know, you're telling a story, you're doing it in a way that the general public can understand. But yeah, so I, I went to Cardiff and became a local newspaper reporter after a fantastic year at Cardiff learning about law and journalism. And we had to learn to type at 100 words a minute and we had to also learn shorthand and be able to write a hundred words a minute. So there was a lot of really practical stuff. And I met, made so many friends and met my husband James, who Shona, you've got to meet on the squash coaching circuit as he's devoted Wesleyan fan and has all the gear and likes to come to matches.
[00:06:31] Speaker B: He's a proud dad. Some of my most memorable moments have been watching how proud he has been watching his son play. So absolutely, for sure.
Where in Cardiff did you meet your husband? I know you met him at Cardiff University, but I actually have a, I have, you know, I have a mental picture of this and I know this is, you know, you're going to be doing a lot of work there as the Chancellor. So. Was it at the student union? Did you, you know.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: It was actually at the interview. So at the old Cardiff Journalism school, there's a brand spanking fancy new building now, but the old building, which was a little more red brick and regular, we met there at the interview. It was a strange interview for the course where it was a collective interview. They interviewed all of us in a room and we all had to say why we wanted to be journalists, what we'd done. So it was quite intimidating because there are, you know, 35 people in this room and everybody's basically braggin and I didn't really have very much to brag about. I had a tiny bit of student journalism and that was it.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: But Jane's paper from your street.
[00:07:32] Speaker C: Well, I did talk about that, but it was a little pathetic. You know, a seven year old is not the greatest. That and a little bit of student journalism at Bristol, but I didn't honestly have very much to say. But James had graduated from Oxford the year ahead of me and he was working already at a local paper at the Surrey Herald, so he was able to talk all about the things he'd done, including covering the garden fate at the home of Elton John and David Furnish, so that seemed like the height of glamour to me. So we met there at the interview.
[00:08:04] Speaker B: And then after Cardiff, you spent several decades working for the BBC. There was a stint with Channel 4 and various different assignments, including being a news anchor. So how do you Go from journalism to news anchor. And how did you realize actually I have a talent for this too?
[00:08:23] Speaker C: Well, I was a local newspaper reporter. So that's all about, you know, how do you get your story, how do you talk to people?
The first story that I covered on my local paper in Hammersmith was someone had been kicked to death outside a pub in Hammersmith. This is the kind of gruesome thing that happens and it's the kind of gruesome story that you cut your teeth on as a local newspaper reporter. But it was a great training because you just have to go everywhere, talk to everyone, be able to relate to anybody in the moment. You know, you have to be personable, you have to get people to tell you stuff, you have to be accurate, you have to be fast. And these are the skills of a journalist. You know, you have to ask the obvious question on behalf of the public. And so from there I, within a couple of years I was at the BBC as a researcher on the morning show on breakfast news, where a lot of that was really guest booking for the next day. So you're sort of chasing whatever the story of the day is, trying to get the guest of the day so that they can be on set the next morning morning. So, you know, it's very competitive. You're up against ITV and Sky and everybody else who wants to get the guest. And then I started reporting and I worked for the Sunday lunchtime political show on the Record. I reported from Northern Ireland during the Good Friday agreement. I became a political correspondent at Westminster, doing all of the live coverage of all the dramatic stuff happening at Westminster, including their vote on whether or not Britain should join the US led invasion of Iraq, which was very dramatic in 2003. And then we moved here to the US in 2004 because my husband James got a job at ABC News as a producer and he eventually became the president of the network. I needed to stay here because our life was now here and we had, we came with two boys and we had a third boy while we were here. So I became the BBC's United nations correspondent, the New York correspondent. I went all over the world and, you know, I needed to sort of keep moving, keep developing my career, keep staying on this side of the pond, which was tricky because that's not typically what happens with the BBC. People would move around, but, you know, I wanted to stay here and keep working. So then, yeah, I became an anchor and correspondent for the BBC's main broadcast, which was then on PBS as well. And so then that was new skills like live studio interviewing as well as anchoring on location and. Yeah, and I did that for 11 years, which was really good, fun and fascinating.
[00:10:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I accidentally was flicking through at some point and BBC World and there you were. So it was a joy to see that. What were some of the adjustments moving to the States. And also I'm curious how you managed to sort of balance the family aspect of it. I mean, being a mother of three sons and crossing the Atlantic and remaining work, that's a lot. How does one do that?
[00:11:24] Speaker C: Well, it was a lot. And I guess it's one of those things where, you know, now when I look back on it, I wonder quite how it happened because it's not like we had a plan, you know, at all. We just figured it out day by day. But we were very lucky because James's visa allowed him to employ.
We were allowed to get a visa basically from what was called members of domestic staff. He had a visa that's granted for people of exceptional ability. Well, that was the category, so that was really handy. And the US government at that point would allow people of exceptional ability to have domestic staff. So in our case that meant we were able to have a visa for a full time live in nanny. So we bought our nanny from London. She came to the States with us, Sandra Doyle. And she was honestly just a lifesaver because she lived with us, she loved the boys, she went above and beyond. She didn't mind that we were traveling. She was often in loco parentis. And yeah, she was amazing. So we did it by having fantastic help. And then after Sandra, we had another absolutely amazing nanny living nanny Sally Whittaker. And after that, when the boys were older, we had a series of Australian au pairs, but we always had people living in. And so that is how we did it, really.
[00:12:40] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. I can only imagine. There's no way otherwise. It's just too difficult. And some of the places you've traveled, incredible. Darfur, Congo, Burma, Sri Lanka, where, I mean, too many to even mention where really stands out for you. What are the ones that really. You look back and go, damn.
[00:12:58] Speaker C: I mean, everywhere stands out. You know, when you've never been, say to Asia, it's just extraordinary to see something like the Great Wall of China, to see Tiananmen Square. I was there with Tony Blair when he was Prime Minister and he went from Washington to China and it was just extraordinary to be in that part of the world. I guess there are, I mean, there are so many highlights, but a couple of things do really Stand out one was being in. It was then Burma, now Myanmar, and going to the capital, Naypyidor, which the Burmese generals had built themselves. And it's like this futuristic place and there are hardly any people in it. It was so strange. It's like an autocratic regime that's built this capital that doesn't seem to have any people, just has glamorous buildings. And then going to Haiti after The earthquake of 2012, when there was then a cholera epidemic, which often is something that happens, a natural disaster like an earthquake, when the conditions are insanitary and diseases spread and there's no clean water. And so the being in Haiti during the cholera epidemic was really striking. And just the incredible dignity with which people conduct themselves in such horrible situations. And the thing that really struck me about Haiti was at the time, our youngest child was pretty small. And I was reporting from a hospital where they were. The staff were trying to get drips, IV drips, for people that had cholera, which is very easy to treat cholera, but you do need a drip. And if you don't get a drip, you can die really quickly. It's horrific. And there was a woman who was very sick who was trying to give me her baby. She wanted me to take her baby. And at the time, I had a baby at home who was about the same age. And so that was really just brought it home to me, you know, the parallel lives and what this woman was going through and what it would be to be in such dire straits that you would want someone else to take your child. And so that was really.
That's one of the things that stays with me.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that's powerful. It's very powerful. And more recently, you've been doing a lot of work with the Reparations for Slavery program with the United Nations. And I mean, it's pretty well documented now. But discovering that your family had links to slavery and choosing to address that, which is incredibly brave and bold and admirable. So I guess where are you at with that? What are the plans going forward? Where do you see it going?
[00:15:30] Speaker C: Well, yes, so my ancestors in the 18th and 19th century were what were called absentee slave owners in the Caribbean island of Grenada, which is in the Eastern Caribbean. It's a small place. My dad likes to say it's the size of the Isle of Wight. It's about 110,000 people. It's one of these societies that was really created by the British and the French and the colonial period because they trafficked Africans there and then enslaved them on sugar Cane plantations.
And the reason that this history came to light is that University College London published a database of all the money that was paid to Britain slave owners when slavery was abolished. So not to the people who'd been enslaved, but it was compensation paid to the slave owners because slavery was being abolished and they were losing what was termed their property, if you can imagine. So it's a further injustice on top of the injustice and the horrors of slavery. When this database was published in about 2016, a family member that I'd never even met or heard of wrote to me and said, laura, this, you know, this database shows that the Trevelyans were slave owners in Grenada. And, you know, you're the journalist, you're the writer, you know, what are you going to do about it? I don't know. I don't know what I'm going to do. I need to think about it, because it was a shock to me, as it was to all of my generation and my father's generation who didn't know anything about it. So in that way, it's like a microcosm of Britain's relationship to slavery, where we are grown up learning in school. I don't know about you, Shona, but I learned in school that Britain abolished slavery and hurrah for us and nothing else really about it. So I went the BBC let me go to Grenada and make a documentary about legacies of slavery on the island, using this history as a way in. And everybody that I met on the island said, yes, you know, your family should apologise for what they did to our ancestors. And, yes, you should, you know, pay reparations to make up for the harm that was done to our ancestors and the harms that exist today. And this seemed like a very powerful argument to me. And so we were then worked with Grenadian leaders and our family were invited to deliver a public apology for what our ancestors had done in Grenada. So we did that in Grenada in 2023. And then various things really flowed from that. And we've set up a Trevellian Fund for Grenada and we're working with Grenadians to support education projects for rural school children and scholarships for Grenadian mature students who study remotely at the University of the West Indies. So that's what we've done two years after the apology. And, yeah, we're fundraising for that charity from family. And I've worked with other families who are descended from slave owners in the British Caribbean who also want to connect to Caribbean reparations leaders and want to apologize and want to try to make amends. So, yeah, I've been, been doing that. And in terms of what's next? Well, in April, the United nations holds a big conference. It's called the Permanent Forum on People of African Descent. And I'll be moderating a panel discussion there with all the Caribbean leaders and the people, so people from Grenada, from Guyana, from Jamaica and the different descendants of enslavers on those islands and territories who, so we can just talk about what we're doing in the hope that that's an example for governments and that eventually Britain's government might apologise for its historic links to slavery and pay reparations to the Caribbean islands from whom so much was taken and who now are in the hurricane belt where climate change is a clear and present danger. So one thing, you know, I hope Britain's government could do is just help the Caribbean islands with some climate resiliency funding. You know, I went to Grenada last year and Grenada, sister islands of A Caricou and Petit Martinique, were devastated by Hurricane Beryl last July. So this is a real issue in the Caribbean.
[00:19:29] Speaker B: We owe them big.
[00:19:32] Speaker C: We do.
[00:19:33] Speaker B: The fortunes we've had are largely in part because of what happened and, you know, we can't change it. But I see very clearly why the need is there to, to do our very best to move forward and help in every way we can.
[00:19:52] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: What was it like giving the apology? Did you personally give the apology?
[00:19:59] Speaker C: Yeah, well, my uncle, my 80 year old uncle actually wrote the family letter of apology. He's a. So he's a good communicator. And more than 100 family members signed it. So we, we read it out at this public apology ceremony in Grenada, in Grenada's National Convention center in the capital. And it was, you know, it was quite emotional, it was quite highly charged because it's not a simple thing. And although we had been invited by Grenadian leaders, not everybody in Grenada was on board for the idea of a public apology. And there were, there was a protest outside the convention center by one of the three Rastafarian tribes. And the Rastafari have been leaders in the reparations movement. And this particular tribe felt the apology was inadequate, that the sums of money we were talking about were insultingly small. So it was very emotional and quite fraught. But then afterwards, so many people came up and said, what you did was important and thank you. And I mean, some people said, what does this change for me? Doesn't, you know, doesn't Change my position. What are you trying to do? Just make yourselves feel better. But I would say overwhelmingly, people were positive and said, we hope this makes a difference. We hope this sets an example. You know, if descendants of enslavers can acknowledge that their ancestors profited and that maybe in some way they today profit from that, then so too can governments. And we hope this sets an example. And I think it did. And it showed that Grenada, this little island in the eastern Caribbean, which also had a revolutionary government in. In the 90s that wanted to provide education and health care and change the conditions of the masses. I mean, that revolution ended badly, but Grenada has a radical tradition, and I think this was in Grenada's radical tradition, and Grenadians appreciated that.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: How did you feel about it afterwards? Never mind what they said.
[00:22:02] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, I was just pleased that Nicole Philip Dow, who's a historian in Grenada and a leader of Grenada's reparations movement, and Ali Gill, the chair of Grenada's reparations committee, that they were pleased with what had happened and that it had had the impact that they wanted. Cause there, you know, we had been encouraged and, yeah, worked with them very closely as a family. So I was pleased that they were pleased and also pleased that most of the people that I met said, this is a good thing that you've done. Let's see where it leads.
[00:22:38] Speaker B: How did the discovery of this history affect your family at large? How did different members process those facts? How do you, so long after the fact, really deal with that?
[00:22:55] Speaker C: Well, I think, as you would expect, Shona, there was a bit of a range. There were people who said, oh, this is ancient history. This has nothing to do with me. Slavery was a long time ago. I've never been to the Caribbean. I don't even know where Grenada is. You know, nothing good will come of this. Why are you even talking about it? There's a reason why Britain's government has never apologized for slavery. And that's because if you apologize, it opens up the idea that you're liable and people might try and sue you for what happened in the past. And so there was quite a lot of that. And there were definitely family members who felt, let bygones be bygones. You know, let's not go there for fear of what it might. I mean, what's to be gained?
But overwhelmingly, actually, I would say kind of 70% of family members that I was in touch with, people wanted to do something, and they were very moved when a leader of the Caribbean's reparations Movement Professor Sir Hilary Beckles, who's Vice Chancellor of the University of the West Indies and author of a seminal book on all of this called Britain's Black Debt. He joined about 40 members of the family by Zoom. And he spoke very powerfully and eloquently about the meaning of apology and repair. And after that, people really had their socks knocked off and said, well, this. Yeah, we must do this.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: How do you, even as a journalist, how do you process some of these really dark stories, facts even, you know, your first story, you're cutting your teeth, it's outside a pub in Hammersmith. You know, how do you go home at night and decompress and keep yourself sane? There has to be a trick to this because it's a lot that you take on emotionally.
[00:24:41] Speaker C: Well, I think in a way that reporting is a process that keeps you one step removed, actually, because, you know, you have a job to do, which is to record what's happening, to bear witness. And this business with Grenada and slavery and our family, which I think is just a microcosm of Britain's wider attitude towards that topic, I think it's been the same thing for me. It's been a really a reporting exercise. So that might sound like I'm ducking the question.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: No, I can see that. I can see how it's like it's a job mode that you go into. I can see that.
[00:25:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So I guess that's the answer to that one.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: Yeah, no, I can see that. And I mean, I give you huge, huge credit and it is so impressively admirable that you have been bold enough to ask the difficult questions and face the difficult facts. Not everybody has that constitution. What motivates you? What gives you the courage to do it? How do you know that you have to do this? Where's the drive?
[00:25:42] Speaker C: Well, I think again, it's just a journalistic impulse, which is, you know, what is the story and where is the truth? And so in this case, I go to Grenada and I meet people in Grenada. The Caribbean has a 10 point reparations plan and has done for 10 years and has been asking the former colonial powers like Britain and France to apologise for slavery and to invest in health and education. So because the Caribbean was left, you know, illiterate and poor at the end of slavery, so there's a very clear route map to follow, which is really what our family did, working in conjunction with Grenada's leaders. There was a, you know, a process of. That they wanted to see that was important. I mean, they never envisaged that it would be descendants of enslavers who would be the ones apologizing and paying reparations. But the principle was already there, so I think that it just unfolded, really.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: Got it. Yeah. It's from the outside. You think it's some dramatic moment. Yeah.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: But it was not like it was our idea, really. It was. We were following a route map that the Caribbean had laid out where. People have been thinking about this for years.
[00:26:54] Speaker B: Right, right. And I guess even the naysayers, it's a discussion. Right. And to have the discussion out in the open is. Is the only way to. To get anywhere.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, it's. You know, of course, there are always naysayers and there are people who've said, you know, your family awoke lunatics white or on the right and who. And then on the left, it's been, oh, you're all sort of white savior colonialists. And this is just a neo colonial structure that you're imposing on the Caribbean and it's exploitative all over again. But, I mean, I think that there's just a lot of noise and it's not possible to be both a woke lunatic and a white savior neo colonialist. So maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
[00:27:41] Speaker B: Somewhere in the middle, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And now you've just been named Chancellor of Cardiff University, so I would love to hear what your plans. What are you going to do within this role and what are your. What are your hopes for this role?
[00:27:56] Speaker C: Well, it's an enormous honour and I'm going to go to Cardiff next week. I couldn't be more thrilled. You know, Cardiff gave me so much. A career, a husband, lifelong friends. I can't wait to see the students. I mean, it is a difficult time in the British University sector, and Cardiff is currently going through a consultation process and the proposal is that there will be serious job cuts. So I know it's a difficult time for the university and I feel for everybody that's involved, but my hope is that I want to be an ambassador for the university, a cheerleader for the students, and I really have discussed with the Vice Chancellor the idea of, you know, really how to. How do we build on the community that exists in Cardiff? You know how it is, Jonah, with Wesley. And you're always hosting the alumni, aren't you?
Well, wouldn't it be nice if Cardiff University had an alumni community that was as vibrant as Wesleyans? And so, like, have you ever been invited back for a reunion show?
[00:28:56] Speaker B: Yes, you have been invited back for a reunion And I think they had one quite recently and I wasn't able to go, but through social media, a lot of my connections were posting their experiences and they had an incredible time. Like, an incredible time. And even just seeing some of the activities they were doing and they were sort of reliving their years there a little bit. It was powerful, actually.
It was way more meaningful than I think I had thought it would be. And I was just feeling that from other people's experience. So I think. Absolutely. To keep that community. I commend that.
[00:29:32] Speaker C: Yeah. So that's, you know, I'm just hoping that's my idea. So I'm excited to hear more about it when I go there. And, yeah, I'll be there for Varsity Day, which is Cardiff University again, Swansea University, 23 different sports. So go Cardiff.
[00:29:48] Speaker B: Awesome. It used to just be we would play Cardiff on the same day in all the sports, but the Varsity Day back when I was there was it was Cardiff Swansea Rugby. And it would be home and away year to year, and everybody would go. But it sounds like it's grown, which.
[00:30:01] Speaker C: Is wonderful to hear, but I'm excited. As you know, rugby's a religion in Wales.
[00:30:06] Speaker B: Absolutely, absolutely. And I am aware of the budget cuts and the tough decisions that are going to be made there. And, you know, music is a big part of Welsh life, as you may also remember, and I'm sad to see that potentially the music department is one area that may be lost. It was my degree, sir. I'm not sure you would be one to ask the difficult questions. And I will ask, how are we going to decide what gets cut and what doesn't?
[00:30:36] Speaker C: Well, no, I mean, that is indeed the difficult question. And I will be frank and say that as the Chancellor, it's a ceremonial role. The actual decision making about what goes or what's proposed to go. It doesn't lie with me, but it's all out to consultation is the other thing I think to emphasize. But, yeah, it's an incredibly difficult time for everybody and it's just hard. And the whole UK university sector is suffering a financial crisis because fees have been kept at the same level for a long time. They've just recently gone up in line with inflation. But national insurance has gone up, which is pretty much clawing back all they got. The number of foreign students is down. Britain's government has introduced immigration restrictions which make it harder, well, impossible for graduate students to bring their families. So there are a lot of pressures on the system.
[00:31:30] Speaker B: Yeah, no, understood, understood. And we'll be following with interest and your experience can help steward. I'm sure if they're not tapping into your. Your wealth of knowledge, then they're missing the point there. What do you want people to know going forward? What do you want people to know? What's your message?
[00:31:46] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. Well, that Wesleyan is the most fantastic university. Say that with one son that graduated from Princeton and another son that's at Princeton now, and I love Princeton. But I think Wesleyan is the most special place because it's creative and just the NESCAC in general, the New England Small College Athletic Conference is a really special place because students have got there because they're academically gifted and they want to play sport and they're talented. And I just think that has been, I know, the biggest gift of all for my middle son to be able to be in a small liberal arts environment where you're challenged academically and you get the privilege of being on a team. I mean, go Cardinals.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Go Cardinals. Well, and you were, you were such a trooper. You were there at matches. I don't know how you fit it in between your travels and all the work you're doing. The fact that you must have been in three places at one time, that's the only thing I can think.
[00:32:45] Speaker C: Well, going to matches was such a joy. And after the, frankly, the hell of being a squash parent when it's just an individual sport, the fact that it was finally a team sport in college was just. Was terrific, you know, and then, you know, I loved the way that you welcomed the teams as the coach and I just loved seeing it all unfold.
[00:33:05] Speaker B: Well, thank you again. You're very kind. And we were blessed to have your son as part of the team. He did an incredible job and was a captain, was a leader.
[00:33:14] Speaker C: Well, that bit I'm most proud of. Yes, we made it there. They got to lift the Conroy Cup.
[00:33:21] Speaker B: Yes, they did. Yes, absolutely they did. That was spectacular. So people can perhaps look up the Trevelyan Fund if they want to help in terms of your course, be honored. Yes. So. And it doesn't take much to look up Laura Trevelyan and see your work. And this is just scratching the surface and I would welcome people to dig a little deeper and can't thank you enough for being here today.
[00:33:46] Speaker C: Pleasure. Shona, thanks for asking me. Great to be with you.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: This has been infinite human with me. Shona Kerr, until next time. Keep challenging yourself and make others better along the way.
