From the Inside Out: Sara Weiss on Life, Sport and Identity

[00:00:01] Speaker A: Today we are talking to Sarah Weiss, who wears many hats in her life, from mother to athlete to author and happens to be a trans woman. She's kind enough to talk to us about all of it and what making the journey to become a trans woman has been like in terms of world perspective, parenting, competing in sport, religion, and more. Sarah is highly articulate and a must listen. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Infinite Human, where we explore our limitless potential through conversations with guests who have achieved greatness, overcome challenges, and work to find their purpose. We aim to share and inspire you to do the same. I'm your host, Shona Kerr. I'm a college coach, professor, and businesswoman who is eager to learn from and sharing the wisdom of others with you and onto the show. Welcome Sarah Weiss with me today. Thrilled to have you. We've been trying to line this up for a little while and I'm so happy that we're doing this today. Thanks for being here. [00:01:39] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I couldn't control the heat wave. [00:01:42] Speaker A: No, we totally get it. So Sarah is a life coach. She's an athlete, businesswoman, parent, authority, broadcaster, and trans woman. So very excited to, to delve into your, to your life story and where you're at. And I know it's really only just beginning for you. You were born in Canada, grew up in Canada. Where you find yourself now, I believe. [00:02:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I find myself here in Canada on Canada Day. But yeah, I was living in the States for a good year and a half and obviously the States is a little crazy right now. So I ended up coming back home and I'm happy to be here around a lot of very open minded, amazing people. Canada is just, it's such a beautiful country and I'm just, I'm so proud to be Canadian. [00:02:25] Speaker A: How was, how was your childhood growing up in Canada? Paint us a picture? How was school? [00:02:29] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, as far as countries go and growing up in different countries, I can't say about other countries, but what I've experienced here in Canada was, I guess, kind of mild. Like, I grew up in Ottawa, which is, you know, kind of government town. And it was, I didn't have a crazy childhood or anything. I grew up around good people. I actually. So I grew up with my mom, who was a single mom of eventually four children. And, you know, there were some boyfriends and stuff like that. But I grew up with my three younger sisters and I was walking to school. It was kind of like we grew up in a, like, lower middle class and I was Always outside. I lived outside and I was typically, you could find me across the street playing with Barbies with a girl across the street. That was like my favorite thing to do and go to the park and hanging with my sisters and all kinds of things like that. Nothing crazy. I didn't have like a traumatic childhood per se. But when I was I think 10 or 11, my mom ended up dating a guy for 10 years who was very verbally abusive, sometimes physically abusive. So I mean, I say it wasn't traumatic, but there was trauma. Yeah, there was a little trauma on the, the verbal abuse that I ended up going through and watching, you know, my family go through. So there was a little bit of that. I was 10 years old, but before that it was very mild. [00:03:57] Speaker A: Nice. And. But still, would it have been different if you had brothers? [00:04:03] Speaker B: Oh, I'm sure it would have. Well, you know, cuz my mom's best friend had 1, 2, 3 sons and they were, we were always together. So I was basically, it was like I had three younger sisters, an older brother and two younger brothers. So there it was constantly like this huge dynamic of all of us and we all got along for the most part. It was pretty awesome. [00:04:25] Speaker A: And how was school? What was school for you into it? [00:04:30] Speaker B: It was good. I mean, you know, we could talk about what I was dealing with behind closed doors and like in my mind and stuff. But as far as like, so I was a kid growing up, obviously dealing with thoughts that didn't really, I didn't understand. It's not like it didn't make sense, but I didn't understand it. And I knew that if I told people kind of what I was thinking and what was going on in my mind and how I was feeling, I, there would be judgment. So I didn't, so I didn't tell people. [00:04:55] Speaker A: How did you know there would be judgment? At what point do you know that they're going to think it's different? [00:04:59] Speaker B: Well, when I was too young to really comprehend that it could have like repercussions of like bullying and stuff like that. Even before that I just, I knew the difference between genders, you know, boy and girl and the fact that I had thoughts that I visualized myself as a girl and like I liked, you know, as far back as I can remember, I would sneak into my sister's room and put her clothes on and I, I knew it felt like it was a secret to me. I know it's hard to kind of explain what was going on in my five year old, six year old brain But I knew it was a secret. I knew I wasn't supposed to because, you know, I could see the difference between boys and girls. And then eventually, you know, you would hear certain things like homophobia and stuff like that and the word tranny. Because people transgender wasn't like a big, well understood or even known thing. I didn't even know what transgender was until my 20s. So growing up, I was just like, I don't know what's going on with me and I don't know if it's like that weird or normal. I didn't know what it was. I just knew that I shouldn't talk about it intuitively. And then, you know, it took me 26 years to actually tell my story and talk about it and come out and all that stuff. But so the, the older I got, the more I saw, especially where I grew up. I grew up in the country with a lot of like rednecks and stuff like that. And they, it was very close minded, we'll say, in the way that, you know, the guys would talk around me. And I, I never related with it, but I pretended to. And I kind of adopted everything I saw in guys so that I could try and play this role in this part. Because me, naturally, I was very effeminate. I was soft spoken. My mom and my grandma always thought I was going to come out as gay. And they kept telling me one once a year. So they would come up to me like, hey, when you're ready to come out, we, we know you know, we know, so let us know. And I'd always be like, no, what are you talking about? You don't know what you're talking about. But yeah, yeah, so I heard a lot of like, racism, homophobia, transphobia, all kinds of these things from these guys that I was hanging around. And, you know, I learned that if I told my story, yeah, there would be bullying. Like, I can't imagine going through high school, if I told everyone before, before high school or during high school, if I told everyone that, hey, guys, I'm actually a woman, so, you know, I'm going to need you to use she, her pronouns now. [00:07:23] Speaker A: No, no, no, no. I mean, it sounds unfathomable and I don't know how much has changed, but I do think talking about it is very helpful. But it is interesting, I think, to understand that those thoughts were there with you from the beginning. This isn't, this isn't something that came on sudd. [00:07:41] Speaker B: You are since day one. Yeah. You know, when people talk about, well, children can't make up their mind on their identities and stuff. I just, I. I can only speak from my own experience. I can't speak for everybody, but for me, I knew right away. I didn't. If I had give. Been given the opportunity to talk about it in an. A safe place, in an understanding way, which now is being created within the school systems, within families and homes and stuff, not all families and homes, but to be able to even know what transgender was back then would have changed my life. It would have changed the course of my whole life. And I gotta say, I have two daughters, biological daughters. So I'm, I'm glad it took me as long as it did for that fact alone. But I can tell you this much. If I knew about it when I was younger, I would have gotten on puberty blockers with the help of professionals, psychiatrists. Like, just so anybody watching understands, when I decided to take HRT and all that stuff, I had to go through a big process, speaking to psychotherapists and counselors to make sure that the professionals all agreed that that was the right move for me. And they all did. They. They knew right away. They knew within the first, you know, couple times meeting me, but there was a protocol and we had to go through months of counseling and psychotherapy and all this stuff. And when, you know, they finally had their. Their write ups all done, it was like, okay, go, go start your journey. And at that point, I had already socially been transitioning, changing my. Changing everything. Growing my hair, long, my long nails and everything, basically doing the social transition. So, yeah, it's not like all of a sudden you can just decide to get on meds and be on meds. It's a process, and it's done with families. It's done with professionals and doctors. This is not something like a teacher can help a kid transition. I hear some interesting rumors and it's just like, no, that's not how it works. [00:09:33] Speaker A: It's an incredible process that I give you a lot of credit. Obviously, you have to do this. This is who you are. So you said it was at around the age of 26. It took you 26 years. So 26 years was when you said, no, this is who I am and I want to transition. [00:09:49] Speaker B: What. [00:09:49] Speaker A: What happened at that moment? I'd also be curious. What gave you the courage? [00:09:54] Speaker B: Oh, man, so many things I could talk about. How can I, like, put it into a digestible chunk of story? So I was married at the time, had my second kid that was, I think, about two months old when I Finally. So my ex wife at the time was drinking a lot, and she went to rehab, and during that time. So what would typically happen in my life is I would get really stressed out in life, and my go to. To, like, relax and decompress was to do my makeup and to, like, dress up and, like, feel free. Like, whenever I dressed up. It's funny because it sounds like I'm dressing up like it's a cosplay, but it wasn't a cosplay to me. To me, it was like stepping. It's like freeing Sarah from the mental prison that he held her in. It was like this expression of being free, and it was the best feeling for me. So I'd, like, free Sarah. I'd free myself. I would do my makeup. I would, you know, kind of look like Sarah, and I was doing that a lot while she was gone. And I was like, this is kind of scary. Like, I. I need to do something about this. I need to talk to somebody. So I actually looked up like a support group, and that's. That's what made it very real, which scared me big time. I went to this group, and there was a circle of us, probably like 10 or 12 of us, and they're talking about different pronouns. Some are lgb, some were transgender boys and girls. And, you know, they're. We're going around the circles, introducing ourselves. And I, as someone who's very social and outgoing, I had my knees. I was hugging my knees on a chair. I was like, oh, my God. I was scared crapless. And, you know, got to me and was like, what's your pronouns? I was like, I don't know. I'm just helping. I don't know what I'm doing. And I was very scared. Slowly, you know, I would go to these meetings, and I was slowly opening up, telling a bit of my story. And I started to. I shared a blog on a site where I said, you know, here's what I've done. You know, in the past 15 years. I've met up with guys from, like, Craigslist and stuff, and, like, it felt dirty and everything, but it was like I needed to do it to feel free. So I spewed it all out on this blog, and I'll never, ever forget that. This one lady, she commented on it, and she said, you, Sarah, deserve to be happy. And it seems so. I don't know, cliche and, like, lame. But that hit me really hard, you know? And I was thinking to myself, well, what would make me happy? And for this 26 years of my life visualizing and wishing that I could just be me since, you know, since as far back as I can remember. And then, you know, puberty, all my. My thoughts were about developing as a girl. And it was so, like, frustrating and confusing to me because, like, I wanted to get pregnant. I would close my eyes, I would see myself with a family and my own children and being pregnant, and my. My sexual fantasies started, and I was starting to think about me as a woman with men and stuff like that. So, you know, 26 years of this to ask myself what would make me happy would easily be the answer of being me, finally telling the world who I am. And it was tough. It was very hard. [00:13:24] Speaker A: How was it? And I know the answer is going to be it was very difficult. But how was it being in a body that didn't. Didn't. [00:13:31] Speaker B: Correct. [00:13:33] Speaker A: Didn't correlate at all. [00:13:34] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I would never call it the wrong body. You know, I've heard people say I was born in the wrong body. [00:13:41] Speaker A: I said, wrong body. It was your body, for sure. [00:13:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. No, it's my vessel, if you will. I believe I'm some floating, ethereal ball of energy that just chose a vessel, and this is the one it chose, and I'm okay with it. So what was it like being born in the wrong body or the. The body that didn't align? Confusing. You know, I thought there was something terribly wrong with me mentally, which was weird because, you know, by 26, I was married with two kids. I had my own home that I had owned since I was 21 years old. At 22, I started a landscaping company and ran it for five, six years. On the outside, everything looked really good. I had major respect for my peers. You know, I was. I did really good in school, yet I was also a party animal. I had lots of fun, and a lot of people knew me. I was well, well known and respected, and my life looked very put together. A lot of people looked up to me because of all the things I had accomplished, how confident I was, how strong I was. People didn't mess with that person. So, I mean, I presented this really successful, grounded, happy person. And, you know, a lot of who I am was still reflected in that person, just dealing with stuff mentally. So it was like the inside was a mess. The outside was put together, and I traded that for, well, now the outside's a mess, but the inside's put together. So I went from feeling very, what the hell is wrong with me? To, all right, we got this. But Mentally, yeah, it was, it was tough. [00:15:19] Speaker A: I, I, you know, we all have things about ourselves that we, we would potentially change or want to make better. And this is just a whole other spectrum of try and empathize with I think is where I'm coming from. How did you navigate the relationships in that? Obviously being married, that, that's hard. Obviously that needed to move along. And then being a parent being, yeah, being a parent to two wonderful kids. How did those might have been some of the harder pieces, I'm thinking. [00:15:49] Speaker B: The dynamics. Yeah, it was interesting dynamics. You know, dating as him. That, that's always interesting to talk about because I created him as a version of a, you know, like my dream guy. If that's, that's probably very weird to hear. But I made him like my dream guy. Like who would I want as a man? For me, I made him like that. And it was funny because like everything I did as him was mimicked from, you know, I would basically hand pick. I like the trade of that guy. I like how he walks, I like how he talks, I like his behaviors. And I kind of compiled them to like this guy. And so when I was dating, I was dating as. So I almost like projected myself onto the girls I would date as if I was them dating him. [00:16:39] Speaker A: Interesting. [00:16:40] Speaker B: Yeah, very interesting. Very interesting. And that include included like any sexual encounters. I was projecting myself onto the woman. So was like as it, it's a mind trip, I'll tell you. [00:16:53] Speaker A: It's like you, it's like you, you had it all accounted for. You've got the, I mean you, you flipped it in all the best ways, I guess. [00:17:02] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I just, so I related, you know, a lot of women were attracted to me and interested in me because I had good connection with them. I was a communicator and a listener and like I didn't relate with the boys I was around. They would talk and they would be like crude and just was very rough around the edges. And I had to pretend like that was my jam. Like hahaha. Left the jokes and it was like it left me with some trauma about guys, like trust issues about men, like what they're like behind closed doors, especially if they don't think a woman's around. Little did they know there was hi. So there's that. And then, you know, moving past my relationships as myself. You know, obviously in the beginning of transition, it was a very awkward time for me. I wasn't comfortable in my skin, my voice didn't sound like it does right now. My face didn't look like it does right now. I didn't have the long hair. I looked very awkward. I, like, felt very awkward. It was very weird. And there was, I think, after about two years of transition, I did start dating. And it was a learning experience, of course, you know, and I was going through puberty again. A very different kind of puberty compared to what I went through the first time, you know, at age 26, going through, or I guess 27, because it took me about a year to get on HRT. Going through puberty at age 27 was not great. The emotional roller coaster. I was very irritable and impatient and crying at every single thing. I thought I was depressed. My mom had to tell me, just because you're crying a lot doesn't mean you're depressed. That's what women do. We cry. So doesn't mean you're depressed. Don't. Don't think you are. And then, you know, navigating relationships. So an interesting thing happened. I got married to a man. And then when that was done, when that we got divorced, my friend of mine, a good friend of mine, was like, you're so much more demure now. I don't know what happened, but I assume it's because you've dated a bunch of men and they've kicked you down. And honestly, that resonated because I dated a number of narcissistic men that were always, you know, so much better than me, you know, superior to me and condescending and belittling in times and basically knocked me down a peg, I guess you would say. And I was much less, I don't know, assertive, I guess, in. In certain ways that they were used to. So they. They said, I'm so much more demure now. And it was interesting to consider why. But it. I totally know that not just in, you know, relationships or intimate relationships, but my relationship to men in general changed and kind of put me in my place. I hate seeing saying that, but that's, you know, the way men treat you. I didn't have the kind of privilege and priority that guys in my, you know, peers, male peers in my circles had. They were given everything that I wasn't, even though I worked twice or ten times harder. Just the way I was talked to and way I was treated, especially compared to him, who, when he'd walk into a room, commanded respect. He commanded respect. Just. Just being there, just opening his mouth. People were listening. They were hanging on to his every word. Now I get different reactions from men and women. Men typically Will kind of treat me politely, but like, act as if it's like I'm just listening because that's what I'm supposed to do. Waiting for you to shush. That's kind of the vibe, you know, especially because, like, again, I've seen the two sides of the coin. I know the difference very clearly. Some men will kind of engage, but then it turns flirty and it's like they just wanted my pants. Cool. That's great. Love it. You know, so the sexism was real. Is real still to this day, obviously. And talking to women, a lot of women treat me like I'm either a threat or like I am a fellow queen. And I love those women who are like, empowering and they want, they want to give compliments and make me feel good about myself and it's, you know, reciprocal. Those are the best queens to be around. But yeah, some, some women are. They treat you. It's like they're eyeing you up and down, like, how can I destroy you? Like, the cattiness and stuff. It's. It's a very different flip. So the relationships I've had with men and women have changed dramatically. And it's, it's changed kind of my demeanor, I guess, because my soul is the same, you know, when I say him as if it's third person. I was there, I was there, but it wasn't me. So my soul, you know, the crux of who I am, my morals, my values, that was always there and always will be. Just how I expressed it and how I showed up in the world and, you know, my mannerisms and stuff, that's all very much changed. Yeah. [00:21:55] Speaker A: So I find it very interesting you talk about while being him, the instant respect that's commanded when you walk into a room versus the dynamic now as Sarah, as fully being Sarah. And I get where you're coming from. I completely. I've not lived the male version, but I have been in rooms where men have forgotten that I'm there. You know, been very male centric environments. And so I've had glimpses of that. And I also completely relate with the. They're just listening to be polite, but you know, there are other thoughts somewhere else. They're somewhere else and it's weird. And the female part of other women judging you, because within that women are supposed to fit in somehow in the cracks. You're not supposed to take their place. You're supposed to fit in the cracks. You're supposed to listen nicely and then you're supposed to kind of hate each Other because you're looking for that male attention somehow, or respect within the workplace, whatever it is. How do you feel about that? And how would you advise, you know, anybody to navigate that? [00:22:59] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question. And I feel like, you know, what I describe it kind of is encapsulated in the word competitive. You know, it's very competitive. It's a competitive world out there between men and women. And not that women are competing with men, it's like they're competing for men. You know, we're all competing for men. And as far as women are concerned, it's like that's the same thing. We're competing for men, so we're competing for attention, we're competing for position where it's like constant competition. My advice as a life coach, you know, because as a human, it's a little different. As a human, I'm like, I'm ready to compete. I'm here, I'm showing up. If anyone's getting chosen for anything, it's me. I'm going to show up in high value and I'm going to be, I'm going to be smart and I'm going to be cute, I'm going to be beautiful, I'm going to be sharp. You know, I'm going to do all the things. But as a life coach, I would say collaboration is the new competition. You know, finding ways to work with people, work with the people that you want to work with. Instead of competing with, you know, other women in the workplace, finding ways to work with them. Collaboration is the new competition. So that's kind of the way I've always seen it. Well, at least for many years, since I understood that competition puts people above and beneath you and collaboration puts us all on a, on a level playing field where we can all add value in our different ways and perspectives. So that is the life coach version of me. Human me will compete. [00:24:27] Speaker A: I'm just going back a little bit, but how was literally day one? So day one you said, right, I'm living as Sarah now. How was day one? [00:24:34] Speaker B: Scary. Scary, scary. Like going out in public for the first time. You know, short hair, very masculine. Because if you'd ever seen a picture, I, I posted a picture of him for the first time in a long, long, long time. And, and it kind of blew some people's minds. I'm assuming yours as well. He looked very, very different than what you're looking at right now. So him wearing girls clothes and like a little beanie and some makeup. Scary, scary but empowering. You know, I was like, I finally get to walk around in my truth being genuine. Because for so long, it was such an act. It was a constant, constant job. I had to filter and govern every single thing I said. So I was like, I would have a thought. I would filter it. I would make sure it doesn't give me away, it doesn't come off feminine. I had to make sure that everything I didn't say said was masculine. Like, pertaining to the role that I had created, the Persona that I had built. So for the first time, I was starting to live unfiltered. And that was neat. It was scary. It scared the shit out of me. But. But it was really nice. It was nice to go out to a store and like, of course I got the stairs. And like, shortly after I started my transition, I started working at Costco, of all places. And I worked at the front. Yeah, I was putting groceries into carts and stuff, and people would take pictures. I'd look over and I'd see a flash, and someone would hide their phone. They would take pictures of me. Yeah. Kids would come up to me, like, why are you wearing lipstick? Aren't you a boy? Stuff like that. And like, you know, it sucked. But I. I was living boldly, you know, I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do it boldly. I'm going to. I'm going to show up. I'm not going to hide. You know, when I started working on my voice, which I had a very deep voice, I was in Costco, and I'm like, I'm. Hi, can I help you? Can I. Can I help you do this? Like, it was very high pitched. It was very like, you know, masculine high pitch. But I had to do it to. To learn how to shift my voice, which, you know, worked very well. But if I didn't do that and if I hid and, like, I. I don't know, accepted that, I would never have gotten to a place where I'm like, comfortable speaking. So I did all that all at once. And it was scary. It was freaky. I felt like a freak. I felt like. I felt very like an alien amongst human beings. Yeah. [00:26:57] Speaker A: Imagine it's very exposed. [00:26:58] Speaker B: Very exposed, very vulnerable, very soft and squishy. Yeah. [00:27:02] Speaker A: Was that your first job as Sarah. [00:27:06] Speaker B: In the work world? Costco? I think so. And I actually became their top salesperson. Well, I'm not surprised. Yeah, well, it was really cool. You know, they. I noticed that the cashiers would always offer a Costco MasterCard. Would you are you interested in a Costco MasterCard or. Or your membership upgrade? And I. I'm like, watching this one day as I'm putting groceries into a card. I was like, hey, have you gotten your free Costco MasterCard yet? And they were like, no. I'm like, perfect. Follow me. And I brought them to an application. They filled it out, and I started handing in applications like crazy. And they're like, how are you doing this? I was like, I just. I got my ways. And what was funny was I looked the way I did and people were just enthralled to get, you know, what I was selling, which was the mastercards. And it worked out really well. It was really neat. [00:27:54] Speaker A: Well, they're drawn to you, not what they're perceiving. It's your soul. It's the soul. [00:27:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:59] Speaker A: How have you managed to navigate work life since? And as you've transitioned? [00:28:04] Speaker B: So the side of me that spent 26 years with male white privilege does not put up with shit. So I quit a number of jobs after certain mistreatments. Not like crazy mistreatments, but you gonna talk to me that way, Pace? Like, I didn't put up with anything I didn't like. You want to disrespect me, I'm not sticking around for it, so. And I didn't give second chances. So I quit a good number of jobs that I was doing very well in. But the moment. And it was always a guy, it was always a male boss or manager. [00:28:37] Speaker A: Example of something they may have. [00:28:40] Speaker B: So I'm trying to think of the exact words, but I worked at this place where we rented out kayaks and pedal boats and. And paddle boards and stuff like that. And I, their number one salesperson because the way they. They sold upsell, sold like, waterproof bags for their phones was so, like, low key. And I was like, I put all the water. Waterproof bags on the front desk. I was like, get this. So you save your phone. And. And we would sell out or rent out of them, you know, every, I don't know, hour or so. [00:29:13] Speaker A: And. [00:29:13] Speaker B: And the male owner, he was just. He was like, I don't know, what do I say? He was pompous. You know, he's just pompous in the way he spoke. I didn't like it. He was kind of arrogant and stuff. And I just. I didn't like that to begin with. But then when it started getting directed at me like I was doing something on the docks, fixing something, and he would, like, want me at the front desk or something. Like the way he told me what to do, I. I didn't like it. It was disrespectful. All you got to do is say, say, hey, can you hop over there? Instead of, you shouldn't be there. You shouldn't. And just. I don't know. I don't remember the exact words, but there was one day what he said, I was like, oh, yeah, peace. And I just walked away. See ya. Not coming back. So in work, I work very hard. I always show up to my greatest abilities to bring tons of value. And that also was seen as a threat in Costco, because before my. What do you call it? Probation was over, I was offered. What's the word? Not managed supervisor. I was offered supervisor, which is very rare for someone to come off the street. And then before, like, usually you spend years there before you become a supervisor. I was offered supervisor after my probation. And the managers, the floor managers, which three women, they all turned on me. Oh, they were not. They started lying about me, saying, she's got attitude. She rolls her eyes and huffs and puffs, and I'm, like, the most positive, happy. Like, I would show up with chocolate bars, and I would give them out to the cashiers and stuff like that. And like, everybody loved me except for them, now that they knew I was a threat. So that was interesting. So, yeah, the dynamic of, you know, because he. Old me never ran into that kind of stuff. Anything he did was respected. It was looked up to, you know, but me showing up as a threat. Yeah, it was not well received. Not well received at all. [00:31:13] Speaker A: As women, we do a terrible job of supporting each other, and I hate to see that. But it's real. It's there. Do you think in the paddleboard shop, your boss would have spoken to you differently if you presented Mario? [00:31:29] Speaker B: I don't. I don't think that. I know that that's not. At this point, it's not like. I think it would be different. No, 100% it would be different. [00:31:37] Speaker A: Do you think there are any advantages in presenting female being. [00:31:43] Speaker B: I get free drinks if I go to the bars. Yeah. You know, I don't look at it, you know, as like, what kind of societal privileges I get. I really just purely solely love that I can be me. I haven't analyzed all these. I haven't, like, written down a pros and cons list or anything like that. I just. I'm free. You know, Nothing can change the fact that I just feel free from, you know, years of being in, like, a mental prison. And, you know, feeling trapped, feeling like I cannot just exist without the. The hurricane of noise in my mind between what I wish and my desires to governing all my thoughts and how I present and trying to constantly adjust. I had to do research on how to be a guy. I literally researched it. Once Google was around. I Googled, like, what do boys do? How do they behave? And I started to, like, adopt certain things, and I would watch other people. So to be away from that, to be free to, like, live the life I've always wanted to live. I don't care what the pros or cons or what. What the implications of being me and being a woman is. You know, I'm learning it as I go. I obviously continually see the dynamics between men and women and women and women and. And how I fit into society as a woman, not even as a trans woman, because I never used to talk about transgender. And most people in my life didn't know until pickleball and the whole sporting thing. And they found out about my book because, like, it's not like I hid who I ever was. I just never talked about it. But I wrote a book, and in my book, there are parts talking about my journey and stuff. So people did find out. And as an athlete, that's a big deal. That's a big deal. But before. So it was about two years into my pickleball journey. No one knew, and no one had any. I never ran into. In my whole life, I never ran into confrontation. Only online. Only online. But in. In reality, no one. There was never. There's never been confrontation. I've never had someone, you know, passed when the moment I KN that I was. Stealth is what they call it. Like, people wouldn't know by looking or by my voice. Like, yep, from that moment on, I stopped talking about it, and people didn't know. Only very close friends in my circle knew. And when, you know, when people found out, I got tons of messages like, oh, my God, I had no idea. I've known you for eight years, and I had no idea. You're not supposed to. It's not like I go around telling people, I used to be a baby once. I was a baby one time. [00:34:11] Speaker A: You know, I completely feel that the sense of freedom that being you has enabled as a woman in the world. I guess I've been trying to figure how to navigate society but use it to get to the best places for society. I think you're coming at it from a different perspective of, you know what? I'm free, and screw you all And I fully respect that. And maybe I need to adopt a little bit more of that and stop trying to. Stop trying to navigate in the ways that I. Maybe I'm thinking. But it is. It is. It is interesting and say, trying to find. Trying to find those. Those paths. And I think we're all trying to get to the same place, a better situation for everybody. [00:34:56] Speaker B: But, yeah, we all want to be happy. We want more money, we want more food, we want more sex. It's. We all want these same things, you know? [00:35:05] Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. [00:35:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:35:06] Speaker A: Now, you mentioned you brought up your book there. Was that a cathartic process in some way to write this? [00:35:13] Speaker B: It was a very interesting process. It was very therapeutic in the end because I did process a lot of, you know, pain and, you know, so what's very interesting. So since I've been back in Canada, I've been staying with my mom for a little bit, and I moved out when I was 17 years old. I haven't stayed with my mom for this amount of time. It's been two and a half weeks, three weeks. This is the longest I've been around my mom for a long time. Nothing against my mom. My mom's amazing. She was the rock of our family. It was her boyfriend who was abusive and made me want to leave. So being here and having the conversations with her and, you know, catching up on what it was like growing up and then past all that, it's been very, very interesting. I don't remember much of my past at this point. You know, I'm 10 years into my transition. I've disconnected from my past in such a way that I. I don't think about it often, so it doesn't reignite my memories. So when I wrote the book, it was, I guess, three years ago, so it was all a little fresher. And I started to. I talked a little bit about my journey, but the book was more about redefining yourself. So you didn't. Don't get stuck with who you thought you were or who you are in a moment and focus more on who you're becoming. It's called not born this Way. And a lot of people think, ah, that makes sense. And I'm like, yeah, but it's not what you think. It's that we are constantly redefining ourselves based on who we want to become. And that's what the theme of the book is. But of course, I've got really great examples. So I talk about my story and I coach through it and stuff. So writing that book, yeah, it was very therapeutic and cathartic. I cried a lot. There was. There were some hard chapters to write. I've experienced a big number of ups and downs. My life was pretty crazy. When you read my book, you know, a lot of people message me after they read my book and they're like, I read it in two days and holy crap, like, you've lived a life. Yes, I definitely have lived a pretty crazy life. And yeah, writing that, getting it out, putting it on paper and, you know, going through the pain and the challenges and the mountains that I've climbed to remind me who I am and where I come from. Yeah, I recommend everybody writes a book. I honestly, I recommend everyone do it. Whether it's a journal, like a full length autobiography, biographical journal or something you want to publish. It feels really good to go through and I don't know, what's your hope for the book? [00:37:43] Speaker A: It's out in the universe now. What do you want it to leave for people? [00:37:51] Speaker B: Well, I hope my whole existence does the same as my stories, to show people that they have the power to be true to who they are and create a beautiful life from it. Because it's scary. If anyone can tell you it's scary to be who you truly are, it's me. It's very scary. And I can't tell you how many people come up to me after reading my book, after getting to know me and saying that doesn't matter whether they're trans, LGBTQ or not. Many people have told me, like, you inspire me to be me. Which is interesting to hear. You know, how many people are not fully, genuinely living authentically and showing who they really are within, what their true desires are, what they really are interested in. I just. I want people to live boldly in who they are because it's so freeing. It becomes effortless. And anyone who's listening, who understands that, they'll look at someone and wonder, how are they so effortless? How can they just speak? And it just feels. It seems so right. And it's like always in flow. I was always so jealous of that. And I can only now operate without script. I can't. I don't do scripts anymore. It's like I'm unfiltered. And I prefer it that way. I prefer to have genuine conversations like this instead of trying to read from a script. It's so good. It's so freeing. It. It makes life vibrant. Vibrant instead of governed and present. Yes. [00:39:21] Speaker A: Yeah. And I'm just thinking through, as you're talking about this, how you were Having to previously filter every single thought so you're presenting in a way that doesn't give away who you really are. It must feel really amazing to have removed that completely. Like that being the freedom of this. [00:39:40] Speaker B: And empowering, extremely empowering to have kind of like this comfort and trust in yourself. Comfort and trust in yourself. To know that when you open your mouth and you speak from your heart, it's going to be beautiful. And I mean, I don't always say the right things. Sometimes I say things that might put someone off or might be received incorrectly than it was intended. And I'm not saying I'm some like, angel because I can now speak unfiltered and stuff, but it is empowering to be able to have to think about what I'm saying, not have to govern what I'm saying, not have to accommodate to other people. If you don't like me, you don't like me, and I'm okay with that. You know, so many people don't like me in this world today. And I've, you know, grown to accept that. Doesn't matter what I do, doesn't matter how I look, doesn't matter what my past is, doesn't matter what I say. Some will like me, some won't. And the ones who do, the ones who want to be around that energy and resonate with what I say and are in alignment with what I represent, they're amazing friends. They're amazing people, just like you. You know, we resonated. We align the moment we met. And that's why we'll stay connected. That's why we'll do stuff like this. And it'll always be amazing and effortless. [00:40:49] Speaker A: And collaboratively makes it even better. That's the beauty of this too. And that for that connection, I'm very, very grateful. Albert Ellis is a psychologist. He would talk about irrational beliefs. And one of his top three irrational beliefs is everybody must like me. I must please everybody. [00:41:04] Speaker B: So irrational. So irrational. [00:41:06] Speaker A: The quicker one throws that out of the window, the better. I think you're, you know, a great example of that and scooping up the great energy of those that, that want to be part of that journey. In terms of people wanting to be who they truly are. I don't think it has to be such a big life transition or the way you present. It doesn't have. It can be as small as I need to move house, but I didn't have the guts to do it. [00:41:28] Speaker B: That's that trust and comfort with some, with. With yourself. Like a lot of People are in relationships that aren't right for them, but they're afraid to be alone, afraid to move forward or go in a different direction. And that includes, like, work, direct. I'm starting to sweat a little bit. It is hot in here. So. But, yeah, like, being afraid to pivot, being afraid to join a certain club or do a hobby or play a sport or a game or, you know, accept an invite to go somewhere. These fears are based on how we think we should be. Thinking, I should have more money before I do something, thinking I should, I don't know, be in a better mood, thinking, I should be funnier. Just be you, whether you're funny or not, or you look a certain way or you feel a certain way. Just throw away the filter. Just get rid of the filter. [00:42:23] Speaker A: And, I mean, here's the giant question. Here's the question of the universe. How? [00:42:29] Speaker B: How? Stop thinking. [00:42:30] Speaker A: How do you do that? Stop thinking. [00:42:31] Speaker B: Yeah. Very simple. Stop thinking. Stop using the brain lead with your heart. I know that that can be tough in a lot of times, but our heart always knows. It always knows. It knows what to say. It knows how to feel. You know, we. We resist so many things. We resist feelings. We resist feeling sad and angry and stuff. And sometimes you got to just, like, feel your things so you can move on instead of resisting it and then creating suffering and stuff like that. But, yeah, when it comes to social interactions, stop using this. Stop using this. This. This has its place. It's a tool. The brain is a tool, and it's a great tool, but it's not a great leader. It really is not a great leader. [00:43:08] Speaker A: Right, right, right. No. Very well said. And you have two beautiful daughters. How has their journey been through your journey? [00:43:17] Speaker B: I mean, great. They're amazing kids. I'm so blessed. I'm so lucky to have them. And they've learned a lot, and I'm very open with them. I teach them whatever I can that I. That their level of comprehension will allow for. They're very aware of, you know, who I used to be, what I used to look like. I don't hide anything, and I'm very open with them. So we have conversations about certain things, and, like, if one of them experienced something at school, whether it's to do with anything like transgender, lgbtq, or not, that they're uncomfortable with, they'll talk about it with me, and we. We open up the perspective and hopefully learn something. But, yeah, I'm. I'm their mom. That. That's. They've always called me mom. Their Other mom passed away, drug overdose. So they lost her about, about a year and a half ago, which, you know, that's, that's tough. So they lost her. We've moved from Canada to Minnesota now back after them, building social standing and, and like building roots and having activities and all kinds of things that they were doing. And yet they continue to stand so solid. They're, they're so mature for their age. They're 10 and 12 and they've gone through grief counseling. And they're both at this point of strength that they've got from all of the things they've learned, the experiences they've had. They've had different male father figures. And you know, right now they have, they still continue to this day have their stepdad, who is, he's an awesome guy. Full support of him and my daughters, as, as is his girlfriend who I'm close with and you know, my ex boyfriend was close with them. So they have a very well grounded, well all round, well rounded life with lots of different experience and intelligence and accepting. My kids are very accepting. I would not have it any other way. But, you know, bullies have no place in, in our circles. So I'm very, I'm proud of myself for how I've brought them up, and I'm very proud of them for how they've navigated with the tools I've given them. [00:45:33] Speaker A: Do they, do they educate the other kids, friends around them? [00:45:36] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, this is the funny thing is kids get it. Kids get it. [00:45:41] Speaker A: Yeah, you're right. [00:45:43] Speaker B: They're not in judgment. Yeah, that's a, that's a learned thing that at 10 and 12, it's still, you know, kids are just, especially these days in the new generations, they just accept people as they are, you know, And I always say, if someone's gonna not like me, not like me, don't like me for my personality, don't make it because of something so shallow like a label called transgender. If you're gonna not like me, make it for something real. And I think kids intuitively understand that if they don't like each other, it has nothing to do with how they look or their race or their gender. It's just their personality. So luckily, they haven't had to step into an education role, but they have enough understanding and knowing that I would be confident that they could teach people about understanding the diverse, you know, world of human beings, race, culture, gender, all that stuff. [00:46:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I feel like that's going to happen as they get a little older. And actually their contribution to the universe is going to multiply in a very positive way. So we met playing pickleball, which the great blessing of pickleball. What an incredible sport that it's exploding right now. How did you find the game and then how was your sort of path into. I'll call it a healthy addiction that we share. [00:47:02] Speaker B: Very healthy. Very addicted. Such a game. So my ex husband wanted to teach me tennis during COVID and he. He asked, do you want to learn tennis? I was like, okay, I don't come from sports. I don't come from, let alone racket sports. The last sport I played with, like, any kind of like or passion was middle school volleyball. And then, you know, in high school and beyond, I'd play every once in a while, but never, like, serious. Never in, like, a league or anything. So he wants. He wanted to teach me tennis. And this is during COVID So we're all trapped in our homes, and there was this little public court around the corner from where we lived. And he's like, we keep driving by it. Why don't I take you there and we'll hit some balls? I'm like, okay. We get there, and he's like, I don't think this is a tennis court. I'm like, are you sure? It looks like a tennis court to me. He's like, the lines look weird, and it's small. And he's like, okay, well, go stand over there and I'll hit you some balls. And he'd hit me a ball, and I sucked at. It was really not great. Like, I could hit the ball kind of over. But he kept going. Something is so weird about this court. He kept scratching his eyes like, I don't know. I'm like, whatever, you know, just, let's hit it. I'm sure you're just crazy. Anyways, we're. As we're leaving, there's this, like, board with a couple pins to hold your paddle or racket. And we see a picture of a tennis rack and a picture of a pickleball paddle, and we're like, what's that? What is this? So we went home, we did some research, found out what it was, went and bought some cheap paddles. Because we're like, hey, we're bored during COVID Let's. Let's do this. Got some paddles, hit the ball, and it was. It was game over. I loved it. I loved it. Actually, in the beginning, I got really frustrated because he. It was just him and I. And he just started whooping my Butt, like, what's the point of whooping my butt? You can, you're good at tennis. Congrats. Hit me the ball because I don't know what I'm doing. So I had to try, right? I was like, why don't you hit me the ball so I can actually figure out how to do this. Like, you know, I'm not good at this. You know, I'm not coordinated. So he started to, okay, I'll go easy. And he would exactly like, here you go, sweetheart. It's like, well, thank you. At least I can hit the ball. Didn't take long for me to get better than him. [00:49:10] Speaker A: Yeah. How long? Maybe a month. Not even two weeks. [00:49:13] Speaker B: No, no. It took me a little while. It took me like, I don't know, three or four months. Okay, again, in the beginning I sucked. I was really not good. My butt was being handed to me anytime I hopped on the court with people. But I took it serious. I got obsessed and I was like, I think I could get good at this if I put some energy into it. I recorded all my games. I played a lot of games with people. I was playing a lot. And I watched the pros. I watched what they were doing. What was I doing that they were or what was I not doing that they were. I hired coaches and started playing tournaments, traveling the US to play tournaments and now playing pro events. It's been quite the journey and I continue to grow. I continue to work on different tools and strategies and my athleticism and stuff like that, which is still not great. My, my endurance has never been amazing since transition. HRT messes up a lot of your, your stuff. So like, we'll get right into this. When I first started, I was 26 years old, £220 muscle. I spent 60. I was spending most of my time in my life in landscaping, lifting heavy things, pushing heavy wheelbarrows. Very strong, solid 220 pounds. I could do. Or he could do 100 push ups. Straight As. 220 pounds. Six months into HRT, I had lost 60 pounds, I think it was. I went down 60 pounds and could do about 10 push ups. Six months into HRT. So that. And I lost my cardio. My cardio continues to this day. Even though I've, you know, spent a lot of time at the gym and play pickleball almost every day. My cardio is not amazing. And I think that's a lot of the effect of the hrt. Hormone replacement therapy. For those who don't know, my, my muscle mass has Deflated like crazy. My whole body has changed. I look very, very different. I'm curvy now. I have fat where I didn't have fat before. It's. It's a different, different physical existence. And, you know, when people talk about trans women have women having these advantages? Actually, it's not what they're saying. They're saying men have advantages and trans women are men. The problem with that is trans women are not men. We're women physically. And they say biology. Biologically, no. Biologically, I am more female than. Than I am male. Unless you look at chromosomes. And to be honest, I've never had my chromosomes checked. So maybe there is something there that is not xy. I don't know. I couldn't tell you. But I can tell you from my own experience, I'm very weak compared to what I used to be. Extremely, extremely weak. My endurance is not great. I come up against many women who are taller, faster, stronger, have better reflexes than me all the time. My only advantage, I would say, is my height. I'm five, ten and a half. That height helps. [00:52:12] Speaker A: Sure. I'm five, eleven and a half. I have your beat. [00:52:16] Speaker B: You do. You do. And that's something I love. You know, when I'm standing with. Beside you, we're eye to eye, which is nice. [00:52:22] Speaker A: There's plenty of women taller than me. And you. Do you miss. Do you miss having that strength? Is that a weird thing? [00:52:29] Speaker B: No. No, I don't miss it. I've got guys with that strength who will do things for me now. [00:52:34] Speaker A: That's true. There we go. [00:52:35] Speaker B: Pickle jars. [00:52:38] Speaker A: Now was pickleball where things started to come undone and people outing you. [00:52:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. As a life coach, even if anyone found out, it was not a big deal. But athletics, that's a different story. Like I said before, most people didn't know. You know, after about, I don't know, two and a half, three years of transition, I was able to go stealth, they call it, and not have to talk about it. And no one assumed anything weird. You know, I would go on dates, and on the second or third date, it'd be like, hey, by the way, XYZ. And I would say 90% of the time, they're like, oh, well, it's new to me, but I don't care. You're awesome. So whatever. Which is. Which is great. So I had no, you know, issues in the dating world, but, yeah, pickleball. Two years into pickleball, I'm going to the US Open and I'm playing with it was women's doubles 4, 0 and mixed doubles 4 0. And I was playing mixed doubles with a guy who had already played in a tournament with me before in mixed doubles. And I had slept at his house. I had a spare room, and I slept at his house for that tournament and for the US Open. And this post went viral on Twitter about Sarah Weiss cheating in the US Open, which I've never cheated a day in my life. I'm, like, so, like, about ethics and integrity. So these viral posts, these. The toxic posts went viral, and they were nasty. The common threads were nasty. Everything about it was nasty. And it all happened while I was there. I got very emotional. I was, like, scared to go. I didn't know if anything bad would happen. Like, when I go to a tournament, I love it. I'm in such a good vibe, good energy. I meet everybody. Like, that's how we met. It was like I was. I'm so happy to meet everybody there. You never know who you're gonna meet, where they're from, what their story is. I'm always so curious about people. But I got this news, and I went back to the tournament the next day. I almost didn't. And I had my head down. I was scared. I didn't know what would happen. The guy who I played mixed doubles with, he called me up, and he's like, you should be suing them for defamation. And da, da, da, da. I was like, well, I mean, they're not lying about me. They. What they're saying is true. He was like, it's true. He couldn't believe it. You know, he'd played tournaments with me before, and it messed him up. He ended up backing out of playing with me, and someone stepped in and replaced him and played with me. But, yeah, even him, who I'd stayed at his place, I'd played tournaments with him. He backed out of being my partner. And then the story, you know, was kind of blown wide open. And I had to ask myself, do I want to. I guess there was, like, three options for me. It was like, hide and stay away from pickleball or continue playing pickleball and just not talk about it. And until it kind of slips back into obscurity and I don't have to talk about it, or I talk about it. You know, I. And I go live on my Facebook and say, so here's what happened. Here's my story, which was something I didn't want to do. I never wanted to talk about this because I never wanted to. That kind of label and box to be something that defined me because I'm so much more than a label that means nothing to me, so much more. So that's what I like to represent and express and talk about. But I started to talk about it because I saw where the world was going since Trump became president the first term, and how people were starting to be a lot more vocal about their sexism, homophobia, transphobia, racism. And I know that I'm not the only one out there. And I personally, I have thick skin. I can handle it. Like, I don't. I don't care what strangers say to me. But I do see a lot of people who are new to their transition being bullied online and the kind of vitriol that spread. And I felt I have a voice. I have confidence. I can show people that it's okay, that you don't need to be afraid or threatened by me or any other trans woman. You shouldn't be barring them from sports categories or from bathrooms. And again, I can only share from my own personal experience my. I'm not a scientist. I don't work in the medical field. All the research has already been done, and that's why the. The IOC has allowed trans women to compete for years. But as far as my own personal experience, I can tell you my strength is gone. It's not just dwindled. It's, like, gone. And my body operates differently. I am constantly outmatched by women. I don't have some kind of big advantage. People are talking about, like, as if they're so sure that I have some kind of crazy Hulk advantage. I don't. I really don't. I promise you, I don't. And I just. I love the sport. So I decided I was gonna talk about it and continue to play passionately and go for my goals. [00:57:36] Speaker A: And thank you for doing so. The world needed you in that space at that time, I think. [00:57:43] Speaker B: And thank you. [00:57:44] Speaker A: Thank you for being bold enough to speak up, and I can imagine how scary that must have been. For those who don't know, the US Open is a very large tournament with, I think, 5,000 competitors over a weekend. So just. You're not showing up in front of 30 people here. This is. [00:58:03] Speaker B: Is. It's. [00:58:04] Speaker A: It's a little bigger than that. [00:58:06] Speaker B: And I will say, you know, in alignment with what I'm, you know, my book is about and, you know, my whole purpose of empowering people to show up as they are and trust and be comfortable in who you are, even though you might think society doesn't like when I'm this quirky or my humor is too dark or my this is too. That my. This is. Should be different to just show up, you know, and showing up to that tournament and kind of just being who I am and then talking about who I am. A lot of good things have happened. I've run, run into and meet so many amazing people, brands that have supported me, and even just right at the US Open, these high end brands that were giving me products like, hey, I just. We're doing this just to show we support you. You know, it wasn't like, it wasn't a big deal that I got, you know, a T shirt and a hat and this and that and. And stuff like that, but to me, it was a big deal to the gesture that they were just saying, hey, we want you to know we support you, and this is just a gesture we're doing to do so. I met Kyle Yates, who also was very supportive. You know, he was one of the top players in the world, still kind of is. And he was just like, yeah, you belong here. You belong with women. And, you know, he's just saying affirming things. And so me going there instead of hiding and hiding who I was turned out to be very beneficial in so many ways. And it was affirming and it was beautiful and it was fun. [00:59:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I'm thrilled the good inhumanity came out for you, as it should. You know, you touched a little bit on women in sports, and it's a big topic right now, whether we want it to be or not. And I should say trans women in sports. You most recently took a very brave leap and appeared on Piers Morgan's show to discuss this, which we all know what that was going to be before Discuss. [00:59:50] Speaker B: That was not a discussion. [00:59:52] Speaker A: Your platform is fully open here to say you'd like. Although you did nail him pretty good, he did threaten that he would be able to train and beat you as a woman, and then I guess, chose to not see you quite that way. I mean, explain how you got him. [01:00:05] Speaker B: Oh, so funny. Yeah, I got this invite for Pierce Morgan. I woke up one one morning wiping sleep out of my eyes, and there's an email saying, would you like to be on Pierce Morgan in four or five hours from now? It's like, what? You know, And I've spent a good part of the past two, three years saying publicly and to myself, I can't sit idly by as this kind of propaganda is putting people's lives in danger against the lgbtqia. Plus, there's got to be something I can do. And that's why I've been a little bit more public, creating content and videos, talking about it, and kind of in hopes that I empower trans women and trans men and just people to be educated enough to not spew dangerous rhetoric that they're hearing from headlines and stuff. And so as much as so many people told me not to do it, don't do it. You don't have enough time to prepare. He's gonna try and steamroll you and all. They don't care about discussion. They just want to, you know, promote their rhetoric and all this stuff. I was like, I'm gonna do it. I don't care. And I didn't go there to win a debate because I knew that was impossible on his platform. Platform. What I went there to do is to show up and show people who I am, show people I have nothing to fear, that I'm not a threat, that I am very confident in, and I am. And when I'm saying I, I mean the community I represent. We are very real. We are human. You know, if you want to hate somebody, at least get to know them first. And to share my story, you know, I was hoping that there would be an opportunity to. For me to share my experience. Not up, not. Not my opinions, but my experience. So at least you can know what I've gone through, what I've experienced, and then you can compare that to your data and your knowledge and your opinions. Personally, he didn't let me do that. However, anytime he cut me off, I didn't stop talking if I was in the middle of a point. Him cutting me off did not stop me from talking and showing up powerfully, and I did that. I really did show up in my strength, in my grace, in my humanity. And I knew that he was going to try very hard to get under my skin, and he couldn't. He couldn't because he just didn't say anything stimulating enough to hurt me. When you know who you are, lies don't hurt. You know, when someone calls me a man, I'm not a man. I know that I don't need to defend anything because I know who I am. It's like you telling me I have blue hair. I don't have blue hair, so why am I going to defend my hair color to you? So you call me a man. You call me a cheater. I know I'm not a cheater either, so there's nothing to defend. So. And all this rhetoric that he used to try and hurt me and frustrate me and cause, you know, emotional reactions. None of it got through. He didn't intimidate me at all. So very early in his show, he was like, by the way, Sarah, if I trained enough, I could easily be beat you. And you know why? Because that's why we separate. Separate the sexes. He said that. I'm like, oh, you see me as a woman? Thank you for that bullet in my gun. I'm gonna use that. I'm gonna use that later in the episode. So I will just be patient and I will wait. And he said something, and I brought it up. I was like, you know, at the start of this show, you said if you trained a bit, you could easily beat me. Now, keep in mind, there had already been enough of the show happening where he had called me a cheater, called me a man, called me all these things. So. And then when I re. Brought it up, I said, you know, at the start of this episode, you said, with enough training, you could easily beat me. And he looked at me and he said, yeah. So he confirmed that belief a second time after saying all his rhetoric. And then I called him on. I said, well, do you see me as a male or a female? Because if you're a male seeing me as a female, then that makes sense. And he was like, well, no, it's a different thing. I'm actually just really good at pickleball. I was like, well, you tattled on yourself. And he was. He went, yeah, that's a good one. And I'll take that. And it just. It's like. Well, your whole argument, everything you were just spewing, just got nullified by that. You see me as a woman. You wanna. You think you can beat me so easily. Well, that's. That's trans women. You're speaking to a trans woman who represents trans women. I actually play pro sports. You do not, Pierce. And you're looking at me like you could kick my ass because I'm just a dainty little girl. Then your whole rhetoric, your whole masked misogyny is showing. That's all it is. [01:04:38] Speaker A: I don't know how long the interview was. 25 minutes, maybe. And it was the most silent he was the entire time, which from my sitting position, was quite gratifying. [01:04:49] Speaker B: Yeah, it felt good. I got him. [01:04:53] Speaker A: Women who would like to challenge Piers Morgan at pickleball Group open to any women. And Piers, we will. You can pick any one of us, and we'll. Let's see it. Bring it on. [01:05:06] Speaker B: I love it. Oh, My God. All women versus Piers Morgan in pickleball. That is clearly because he can train. [01:05:12] Speaker A: Hard enough, he can beat any of us. Right? [01:05:15] Speaker B: Bring it on. Yeah, let's see. Well, you know, and so this is, this is bringing up a really awesome thing. Being on that show inspired me in a big way. I've had some good conversations with mentors of mine about it and stuff. And, you know, as someone who notices this whole transgender in women's sports debate, realizing facts and science don't matter at this point, doesn't matter how many years of, you know, proof that trans women are women and trans women belong in women's sports. Doesn't matter how much proof and scientific evidence we have. We're at an impasse. The people who don't agree with it, they just don't agree with it. Whether it's science or not, they just don't agree with it. And, you know, like I said, we're at an impasse. And as someone who's like, well, I gotta. I love to find ways to make things work, you know, and I play sports at a pro level to a point where I think I have a lot to do with this rule in the ppa. They bar trans women from playing women's sports. The app doesn't, but the PPA does. And it's one of the biggest leagues out there where some of the top players. [01:06:27] Speaker A: Tournament tours. [01:06:28] Speaker B: Yes, yes, I want to. So now that I'm back in Canada, my plan is to find investors to help me open up a pickleball facility. Whether it's a pickler franchise who I'm in talks with, or our own facility where I can start to design a very all inclusive league, not co ed, but a people versus people league. Because when we really play and watch sports, is it really about gender or is it about people competing against people? And I think we need to go back and we need to rewrite this whole landscape of sports, because the current landscape, it's not working. It's. It's expired. This gender superiority belief system is nonsense. It's incorrect. Is it true that a good number of men on average might have superior strength? Yeah, but it's not true across the board. So as a blanket statement, that's not true. There are many, many very strong women who are much stronger than 99% of men out there. There's many women who are faster than 99% of men out there. It's not a blanket statement. So the whole belief system of gender superiority, which has been seen in much more than just sports, and damaging lives and damaging societal interactions. Because this whole belief system that men are superior, that's got to shift. Shift. That's gotta shift. There is no superior gender. There is no superior gender. From there, we can change the narrative when it comes to sports. We can create new parameters that make sense to create legitimate level fair playing fields that is fully inclusive to end any gender, race, culture, creed. Has nothing to do with those things. It all has to do with the parameters fitting for skill. So, you know, you see things like this in pickleball. 4.0 players are 4.0 players. Has nothing to do with biology or gender or height advantages or speed advantages. Has nothing to do with that. It has to do with skill. If you're a 4.0 man and you're very tall and you play against a 4.0 woman who's very short, who's very speedy, it doesn't matter. Add any biological marker on there. If they're 4.0, they're 4.0, they'll win half the games on average. I mean, you know, the, the rating system isn't perfect or anything, but if we create parameters that are more focused on, on the skill divisions based on certain things that make the level playing field. Because when we watch sports, we want to see a level playing field. We don't want to see a blowout, we don't want to see a team get badly beat. I know there's ways to create level playing fields that are basically co ed, but it's people versus people. So I want to start showing this. I want to create my, my facility and start to narrow it down and try different things to see how can we make a league where it doesn't matter who you play with. You play with a guy or a girl or a trans woman or trans man or doesn't matter. You can have a team of whatever, and as long as the skill divisions are well equalized, then you're gonna have competitive play. And if I can do this in a way that is embraced, embodied, is fun, is competitive, and sponsors want to take part in, then I would be able to change the world, first of all. But I would take it to soccer clubs and volleyball clubs and football clubs and say, hey, we've got this system that works. It's fully inclusive. There's no more talk about gender superiority. There's no more talk about segregation of trans women and trans men. You fit where you belong, skill wise. And my goal with that is to kind of change the landscape of sports in many ways, not just like the categories like weight classes and skill classes and stuff, but how we go about creating media coverage of sports. An example that I love to use is that there's DC comic book heroes and there's Marvel comic book heroes. And do you watch it all like any Marvel movies or any of that? [01:10:36] Speaker A: I've certainly watched a few of them, yes. [01:10:38] Speaker B: So then let me ask you what your opinion is of DC and Marvel. What's the more famous biggest of the two? Marvel. Marvel, yeah. Even people who don't know much about it can say, yeah, Marvel does the big stuff. You know why? You know what the big difference between Marvel and DC is? DC is the superhero behind the human. Marvel is the human behind the superhero. That's why they create these movies that people fall in love with the characters. They actually get to know the people behind the mask. They know the Peter Parker before the, the Spider man, you know, they know the Tony Stark behind the Iron man. And they have very real human problems, very real human existence and, and experiences. And I feel like sports right now is very dc. I want to bring Marvel to sports. I want people to get to know the athletes behind the superstars before they're superstars, before they deserve their own autobiography books and video documentaries and stuff. I want to follow sports in a way that shows the people that are playing the sport. So there's a couple things I want to try. And so it's very, very important that I build this pickleball facility and start, start showing the world a people versus people league. [01:12:02] Speaker A: I love that. And I guess it can transcend age to a degree too. You could have 65 year olds against 14 year olds. You can have. If it's just about your literal effectiveness on the court at that present time, then you've got the people versus people. Do you still see a place for some of the more traditional categories or do you feel they need to be removed totally? [01:12:29] Speaker B: No, no. And like my, my position will continue to stand on trans women are women and belong in women's sports. Yep. That, that will not change. Women's sports, men's sports co ed, you know, like with pickleball, we got men's doubles, women's doubles, mixed doubles and singles. Why? Why? We don't have to get rid of anything unless it becomes eventually, maybe 100 years from now irrelevant when we're talking about the people's league. You know, if we're watching sport to be competitive and have fun enjoying what we're watching, it doesn't need to be split into genders for that. It doesn't need that. [01:13:07] Speaker A: Well, one example that comes to mind for me as I'm thinking through, if anyone's ever watched Ninja Warrior, there's no male or female category. Right. It's just. It's just, hey, if you can do the course, you can do the course. Now, within that, you know, there's been some incredibly inspiring women, super strong, that have kicked the butts of many men in that realm. It is still generally more. The men with generally more strength that will come out on top. But there are women for sure. I mean, there's a few, and they're out there, and it's completely equal. There's no. I think it's entertaining no matter what. And I think pickleball is also a wonderful example. It's. It's. You know, it's one of the few sports I can think of where in a team aspect, there are men and women on the same team contributing equally. [01:13:56] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. It's an equalizer for sure. [01:13:59] Speaker A: And I'm still putting people into boxes in genders, so it feels a bit strange, but there is still a little bit more of an interaction versus a complete segregation, I think is the point I'm trying to make. [01:14:10] Speaker B: But I think the world's ready. I think the world is ready to start looking at a different way to build this, the landscape for sporting. We're at an impasse. Right. You know, there's. You know, I would say half the world is one way, half the world's the other way. Just will not shift their opinions on it. Their. Their. Their thoughts on how sporting should be and where trans women belong. And it just. It drives me nuts that people feel so entitled to tell trans women where they belong, even though they have no idea. They have no idea what the science and the facts. Facts behind things are. A lot of it is, and I want to say transphobia, but honestly, it's misogyny. You know, growing up on the two sides of the. Of the coin, seeing sexism and misogyny play out in real time and the shift between being treated like a man and being treated like a woman, it's funny that so many people want to hide what their misogyny really is. They. Instead of just really showing that it's that they don't like women or they don't want women to succeed, they'll use an easy label, like trans is transgender. It's. It's unsafe to have them in sports. It's unsafe to have them in the bathrooms. It's. No, you. You just want to control women. You think very Little of women. What I see on social media, when there's common threads about, you know, trans women in sports, trans women in the bathrooms and stuff, I would say 98% is men commenting, right? 98. That's not a little percentage. I'm serious. 98% of the people sharing their vile opinions are men. [01:15:49] Speaker A: So they're the ones feeling the most threat from this for some reason. [01:15:54] Speaker B: I don't know that they feel threatened. I don't know that it's a threatening thing. [01:15:59] Speaker A: Is it a power thing? [01:16:00] Speaker B: It's a power and a control thing, like it always has been. Controlling spaces. Yeah. Superiority thing. [01:16:11] Speaker A: So talking about people, trying to find ways to justify ignorance, let's call it. What is your take on religion, and where does religion fit for you? Within, you know, within your life? [01:16:26] Speaker B: Well, I'm very spiritual. I believe in God in my own way. I'm not religious. I do not go to church or anything. I don't have any judgment on different religions and Catholicism and Buddhism and all that stuff. I've kind of taken a little bit of interest in. In most of them, learning a little bit from different sects and stuff. And there's a lot of good in teachings, religious teachings, and there's a lot of stuff that's contradictory and stuff that. But, you know, obviously you see a lot of people justify their hate based on what's written in their book. I know God does not do that. The God that I know is love. If I could just, you know, describe God in one word, it's love. The reason we're here is based on love. Even if we're experiencing serious challenge and hardships and things that don't seem fair, I believe that our energy source, call it a soul, a spirit, or just plain energy, is infinite. You know, and even religions will tell you God energy cannot be created or destroyed. Our souls can't be created or destroyed. These vessels are not who we are. So my religious beliefs is that we are all part of the same collective of energy experiencing a human experience. And it's less about judging that experience and more about observing it, observing our participation in the human experience. And I find that a lot of religions create this platform of this is good, this is bad, this is right, this is wrong. When really we know in our hearts what's right and wrong. And. And it all kind of comes back to the golden rule of just don't harm people. People don't harm people. It's very simple. We know this in our hearts. We don't need a book and a bunch of commandments for us to intuitively know that harming people doesn't feel right. So in that I spend my life making sure I don't harm people. And of course I do, intentionally and unintentionally sometimes, you know, the human side gets the better of me and I try not to judge it in myself and hate myself when I make mistakes. But as far as my thoughts on religion, I believe there is all kinds of reasons why religion can be something that positively impacts your life and benefits you. And I also believe the vice versa on that and personally, I do really well feeling connected to everyone and understanding that when someone's lashing out on me or has an opinion on me or whatever, it's not about me, it's about them and their perspective and it's none of my business. It's none of my business, though sometimes I want to make my business and I want to get all up in there and, and argue and debate and stuff. But in the back of my head, as far as my spiritual belief is, is we're all one. We're all connected to the same energy source and God is so much greater than we're given it her him credit for. But I don't need to spend my life at a church getting down on my knees and doing these things that this, this book says to show that to God, just my existence alone, my love and gratitude for what I'm given is enough. [01:19:45] Speaker A: And what's your message to those people who say we're born male, we're born female, that's it. And religion is dictating that opinion. For me. [01:19:57] Speaker B: There'S not much I can say to people in that way. When you're dictating your whole reality, your whole map of reality is built on a book that tells stories instead of you listening to what you know is true in your heart. There's not much I can say. All I, all I can really say is, again, we don't give enough credit to how beautiful and diverse human biology and the human spirit and soul is. I'm not born in the wrong body. I am exactly who I need to be. And luckily there are things like gender affirming care that can help me express it in the way that feels aligned. What you see feels very aligned with who I've been inside for many, many years. You know, we can, we can go. A lot of people say, well, God doesn't make mistakes. You know, he made you who you are. Well, he made your eyes bad. Why are you wearing glasses? He made you not like your Hair color. Why are you dying your hair color? You know, he made you bald. Why are you getting hair plugs? That's all part of gender affirming care. And all it does is help better reflect and express how you feel inside. Is it good or bad or right or wrong? It's neither. You know, I technically could have kept the look and not gone through HRT and not gotten surgeries and still been me and still represent and express the way I am, who I am. But when I look in the mirror, I love what I see. I love that I am finally matching how I feel on the inside. So I would say try not to take everything that dictates your whole life from a book that was written by, by people. [01:21:35] Speaker A: Very well put. [01:21:36] Speaker B: Don't use it to justify hate. That's just not godly in any way. [01:21:41] Speaker A: Right? And I love the fact that you, you, you have, you have both, right? You, you are spiritual and I think that's, it's, it's powerful for you to articulate. You know, tough question, but I appreciate you fleshing it out. [01:21:54] Speaker B: My relationship with God has been interesting. You know, I spent 26 years cursing God, you know, hating that he cursed me, that I was some big mistake. You know, when I finally embraced myself and understood that who I am is a gift, not a curse, that what God gave me and the body he put me in and the mind he gave me and the soul and the heart and everything that I was, was given to be who I am was a gift that changed everything. And I was able to feel gratitude and thankful for the energy source or God, like you label it how you want. I'm saying God. I'm saying energy, whatever God did for me, gave to me the path that has been laid that I've been walking. That, you know, I don't have control over many things in life. I don't have control over this. I don't have control over the path that I'm walking and the city circumstances and situations that I'm put into. I don't have control over that. All I have control over is how I respond to it. And if I have choice over that, then I choose to create joy. I choose to show up in some sort of valuable way for people that helps them feel good about their existence and their moments and their experiences. And I choose to thank, be thankful for what I have. [01:23:14] Speaker A: Well, the joy and the love just completely emanates from you. So the world is very fortunate to have you in that role and to be so eloquent to articulate it is, again, very, very powerful. Now, you talked a little bit about your hopes in terms of opening a facility and a people versus people league, because we need something else. We're arguing back and forth in past. Well, you know what? Maybe there's a different way, which is fabulous. What, what, what are your other hopes and dreams at this point? [01:23:43] Speaker B: You know, that's pretty much what I'm hyper focused on. But for my children, you know, I want to make sure that I do as good of a job as I can at giving them tools and the strength to face what life can throw at us. You know, I'm not gonna force them into safety. I'm not gonna control them into boxes where I feel like they belong. They are who they are. If anyone can tell you with absolute certainty, you can't change who you are to fit into a box to accommodate to anyone, including your parents. So my goal for them, and I will continue to do this to the day I die, is to give them whatever I believe will help sharpen their tool belt. Give them whatever they need to face what they're gonna face. And they're gonna. They're gonna face challenges, they're gonna face life. So I hope that I do a good enough job to get them to a point where they can create a happy life, a life where they feel free and empowered and are doing something with purpose and passion and operating with dignity and integrity so that they don't break their golden rule of not harming people. So that would be, you know, those are my two big goals right now. Creating powerful relationships with amazing people, whether friendships or intimate. I just, I do. I do love people and don't always love their ego, but I do love people. And I love the stories and I love the spirit and the soul and the creativity within people. There's a lot of human potential. There's a lot of amazing things that we're capable of, and it's. It's only getting bigger and crazier and like watching AI technology emerge and how people are using it and being creative with it, that stuff is. Stuff fascinates me. And it's funny, you know, to say I love people when so many times in my life I've thought, I hate people. You know, I've dealt with a lot of ugly, ugly personalities and people who just lash out their insecurities and their hate for their own life on me. But I understand that. I understand how hard it can be to try and build a life where you're happy and empowered and all the right things. Are happening. We're all going through our messes. And when someone lashes out and they show me their ugly side, it used to really hurt. Now it doesn't hurt. I hurt for them. I hurt for anyone who feels the need to bully or hurt others to make themselves feel less like they hate themselves. [01:26:15] Speaker A: It's amazing to see you at such incredible peace with yourself. And I think that's. That's where you are able to see the uglier side of humans and feel that way. I think it's when one is not at peace with oneself that it gets muddied and maybe the perspective is not as clear. And I think, you know, you talk about the possibilities of humans, and this show is called Infinite Human for a reason. It is about that. It's about what. What can humans do together? How can we collaborate? What else is possible? And to your point, look at AI. Who'd have thought even a year ago, two years ago, we'd be where we're at? So, you know, the future is endless in what we can do and what we choose to do. And I always say on this show that helping others is the ultimate, is the ultimate form of humanity, which is just thrilling that you are at that point where no matter where you walk in, you're doing that. Whether you realize that or not, that is happening. So from, you know, one human to another, you need to know that. And maybe you get told that a lot, but I'm going to throw it right at you anyway and really can't thank you enough for sharing so much today. I urge people to go check out your book and learn more about your story. And also I'll put some details in the show notes so that if people want to collaborate with you with your new pickleball facility venture, or even brainstorming on a new way forward in terms of how we compete in sport. And I hope you don't mind that people are able to reach out to you that way. [01:27:48] Speaker B: Of course. Yeah, you can find me on Facebook. I'm on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram. I'm on all the things. So if you see this show, feel free to reach out, send a message. Just say, hey, saw your show. You can tell me what you thought, your views on what I'm sharing. I'm always happy to go back and forth and expand our perspectives together. [01:28:08] Speaker A: Any last thoughts you'd like to share with us? [01:28:12] Speaker B: Live boldly. Life is for the bold. You know, show up. If there's one thing that I could definitely encourage anyone to do is to just always show up. Don't let the fear stop you from showing up. I've done this countless times where I felt afraid, like I felt I didn't belong, I shouldn't show up. And I did. And when I show up in the face of those fears, so many beautiful miracles happen. So always show up. [01:28:44] Speaker A: Amazing. Well, thank you, Sarah. Inspiring as always, and appreciate you being here. [01:28:49] Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me, Shona. [01:28:54] Speaker A: This has been infinite human with me, Shona Kerr. Until next time, keep challenging yourself and make others better along the way.