Episode Transcript
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Welcome to Infinite Human, where we explore our limitless potential through conversations with guests who have achieved greatness, overcome challenges, and work to find their purpose. We aim to share and inspire you to do the same.
I'm your host, Shona Kerr. I'm a college coach, professor, and businesswoman who is eager to learn from and sharing the wisdom of others with you.
And onto the.
Your life can change in a second.
When it does, the real question becomes who will you serve and what's still possible?
Today's guest is Brad Snyder, retired U.S. navy SEAL, Paralympic gold medalist, and author of Fire in My Eyes.
While serving in Afghanistan, Brad was critically injured by an ied, losing his eyesight and nearly his life in an instant. The future he had trained for disappeared, but his capacity to serve and to grow did not.
Brad went on to become one of the most decorated paralympic swimmers in U.S. history, then took on triathlon, earning medals on the world stage once again.
He's currently finishing a PhD in Public Policy at Princeton, serves on Paralympic governing bodies, and is now training with his sights set on the 2028 Los Angeles Paralympic Games.
Driven by a simple but powerful goal, he wants his daughter to be able to watch him compete.
On Infinite Human. We explore the limitless possibilities of what humans can achieve.
Brad's story reminds us that even when circumstances, narrow purpose and human potential do not I'm honored to welcome Brad Snyder.
Welcome, Brad Snyder. I am absolutely thrilled that you're here and incredibly grateful you're spending some time with us.
[00:02:30] Speaker B: So glad to be here. Thank you so much for the time today and of course, your patience and scheduling. It was a bit of a journey to get us together, but we're here.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: 1,000% worth it. I know it, and I can't wait to dig in here. Brad, give us a little overview of where it started. Where did you grow up? Where were you born? What were the early days?
[00:02:48] Speaker B: I grew up predominantly in Florida, and around the age of 11, I was the oldest of four and I was a very active kid, which is a good thing and a bad thing. It's a good thing in many ways, but it's a bad thing when you kind of don't have anything to vector that energy into. So I think I was annoying my parents and I think they said we need to get him into some kind of sport to kind of vector that energy in some direction.
And being in Florida and having the background of my family, my dad was a swimmer. My grandma on my dad's side was a state champion swimmer back in her heyday. So Swimming was a natural pick within. You know, I tried out when I was 11.
I thought when I showed up at the swimming pool that I already knew how to swim really well. We were definitely beach people. My dad taught me how to body surf when I was really little. So I felt like I, I really know how to swim really well and got to the pool and I did my tryout and was instantly blown away at how A, bad I was and B, how, how graceful competitive swimming really was. And what I was, I was just really impressed by the, the level of, of technique and the level of, you know, finesse that a lot of swimmers had. And I definitely didn't have any of those things and had to immediately start working really, really hard to kind of get into the sport. But I think what, what really brought me in, in that first couple of weeks was a, not not only just kind of being so bad at it and being humbled in that way, but seeing a reward for your effort. So, you know, after just a couple weeks of practice, I wasn't the worst kid. And I could do my strokes better and I could keep up in the practice. I could do the whole practice, I could jump and, you know, as I put in the time I started to see, you know, I'd get better and better and better and better. And I think I fell in love with that idea of if you work hard, there's an output and you can keep going in that way. And I just really got sucked into the sport. So swimming really became a huge part of my life at that point. Also taking two steps back, three out of four of my grandparents all served in the Navy specifically. And so as I'm growing up getting into swimming, I'm constantly hearing stories about my grandparents in and around the Navy and both in the World War II timeframe as well as a post war world. And I think all of that kind of mixed together into me kind of knowing that being an athlete was core to who I am and service was core to who I was. And that eventually led me to compete Division 1 at the Naval Academy.
Graduated enemies is you're guaranteed a job immediately after you graduate college. So I had four great years of swimming in college, got a degree in Naval architecture, and then kind of got blast out of a cannon into my Navy career right out of the Academy in 2006.
[00:05:34] Speaker A: I'm a college squash coach by trade, so I recruit against the Naval Academy. There is a squash team there. We've actually been there to compete.
I've seen what that looks like. I'm curious for what your college swimming experience was like, and I did read that perhaps you were. You captained the team there.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:05:54] Speaker A: And just for the sake of the students that I work with day in, day out, what were your challenges there? How did you balance being a great student, Naval cadet and, you know, high level performing swimmer?
[00:06:09] Speaker B: So not to put too fine a point on it, but I balanced it poorly. I didn't do a very good job of that while I was at the academy. And I can say that, you know, hindsight's always 20 20, but what happened, I think, is not uncommon for folks who go to the Naval Academy. But I was. High school was never really a challenge for me. It was really easy to get good grades in high school. It was actually pretty easy to get a good grade on the SAT score.
So I kind of breezed through and got accustomed to, I don't really have to prepare. I can go into the exam and basically remember everything we've covered in class and get good grades. Not perfect grades, but good grades. And I walked into college thinking that or I don't, I don't never. I never really thought about it. I just, I went in and started doing that again. And that did not work in college at all. It pretty much immediately I found myself way in over my head as far as the level of work, the quantity of work and the difficulty. You know, at the Naval Academy, it's a very stem. Lent.
STEM oriented curriculum. I was in, you know, a lot of chemistry and physics right off the bat and some heavy math, and the course load was really high. And I was just, you know, the old paradigm did not work. And I. It took me a while to adjust because pretty early on I adopted the Persona of a jock. Like, I get crappy grades because I'm an athlete and all the athletes get crappy grades. And that's just part of what being a jock is all about. Interesting, right? And I, I think at the time it was easy to sort of excuse away my bad habits by just saying, oh, you know, athletes are just here to. To do sports, not get good grades. But it took that. That didn't, you know, that didn't solve my problem. It just made it worse, actually. So I think it took me till about my sophomore year to say, you know, I, no, I. This is a me problem. And I really need to adopt better study habits.
And it's really just, you know, organizing yourself and holding yourself to account, being honest with yourself of, hey, you know, am I putting in the work? Am I making the time?
You Know, interesting story. I think it was around my junior year, I really started to mature into that and said, listen, you know, actually, given the course load, given the amount of practice we're doing, these two things do not jive. And I had actually said, I'm going to quit. I can't balance this appropriately.
My grades are too important. My military career is now more important.
Swimming for me is, you know, it's going to end in a year anyway. Why don't I just. I should just give this up. So I went into my coach's office to quit, actually, and he told me, before you. Before you get into whatever you wanted to have this meeting about, let me just tell you the exciting news. Your team just elected you team captain. And I was like, that's. Well, that's a. That's a twist. I did not expect that. And now, like, you know, he's like, what do you want to talk about? I'm like, well, no, that the paradigm has shifted. Like, I can't quit on the team that wants me to lead. So now the meaning of athletics took on a different meaning. And I just had to say, I'm going to really double down on the work and the organization standpoint. But anyway, the long answer to your question of I did it poorly for a while, and college was a journey for me in maturing, establishing a sense of ownership over my habits and saying, hey, this is actually a me problem, and there is a way to organize myself in a way that I can keep these things balanced. I ended up, you know, I ended up graduating just fine. I didn't have a, you know, I didn't graduate with honors bunny stretch. But I definitely improved upon where I was my freshman year and that by the time I left the academy, I had adopted a I'm not a jock, I'm not dumb, I'm not a bad student. I just needed to utilize different methods. And I'm happy to say, in grad school, completely 180 out. I've gotten almost perfect marks in my grad school. And that has validated the idea that I'm not a bad student, nor am I dumb. I just need to apply the right methods.
[00:10:00] Speaker A: I love that. I love the journey and the maturation. And that's the point of it, I think.
[00:10:04] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:10:07] Speaker A: Were you deployed right away?
[00:10:09] Speaker B: No, not right away. So everyone. Everyone out of the service academy. It's really interesting. Like, everyone gets their own flavor of service. There's pilots, there's surface warfare officers on ships, there's Marines, there's Navy seals and all that sort of stuff. So everyone goes to their respective training pipeline. And for me, I was an explosive ordnance disposal officer, which is a really unuseful and unhelpful acronym for the bomb squad. All of our. Most of our training is down in the panhandle of Florida, where I learned how to do some basic scuba diving, some more advanced scuba diving, on some rebreathers, kind of things that we use. And then I went over to Fort Eglin, where I spent about nine months learning how to take apart every kind of bomb you can imagine from stuff that's made by the US By Russia, by China, hand grenades, landmines, rockets, guided missiles, nuclear weapons, and then, of course, the improvised explosive device made out of stuff you can get at Home Depot. So that was an interesting pipeline. Then I did some other sort of, you know, how to use communications, how to shoot, how to be in a vehicle, and all that sort of stuff, integration training, and then went to Charleston, South Carolina, and then ended up making my first deployment in 2008.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: I mean, being in the military is kind of like the ultimate team sport, and I hear people who absolutely loved parts of it. Was any of that true for you?
[00:11:33] Speaker B: I think I've seen this time and time again. You know, I have the benefit. A really kind of rich part of my background is having a deep experience on both sides as a longtime athlete, as also a military veteran, and the.
The parallels in the culture, parallels in the teamwork dynamic, parallels in organizational dynamics, all of those things. It's basically one and the same. Great athletes often make great military members and vice versa. You see the parallels, especially like when you look at Paralympics, look at the number of folks like myself who wound up injured and kind of just went right back to what they knew, which was sports. Myself, Melissa Stockwell, Rico Roman, there's a bunch of us all that went right into Paralympic sport as a function of our rehab. So, yeah, that's 100% true. And that is what I definitely loved, especially on my deployment to Afghanistan. I worked in a very complex environment with a team.
It's very much like. Like football. Like, everybody has a very specific job, and the unit doesn't work if any one person's job falls through. So you really do learn how to, you know, really optimize your little. Your little area for the benefit of the team, but then also, you know, how to rely on everyone else and not kind of stick your nose where it doesn't belong. And when that really works, boy, it's so cool. They think they what do they call it. They call it swing and rowing. Did you read the. What's that book about the 1936 Olympic rowing team, Boys in the Boat. I read that book. And then they. When they say when everybody in the boat is just doing exactly what they're supposed to, it feels like the boat is just swinging. I felt like there were moments like that on my deployment to Afghanistan where our team navigated significant challenge in a way that was very graceful because we trusted each other, we knew what our jobs were, and we just did it. And I smile when I think of those things, that teamwork is what made it so special.
[00:13:28] Speaker A: Fast forward a little bit. And unfortunately, it didn't all go wonderfully. And we know there was a situation with, I think, an IED that has affected your eyesight.
In your book that we have here, Fire in My Eyes, you mentioned that the last thing you ever saw was the sunrise in Afghanistan.
When you think about that moment now, what does it represent to you?
[00:13:58] Speaker B: Oh, that's. It's an interesting moment.
I think it.
I. I liked it incorporated that visual in it because the whole beginning part was meant to juxtapose what is actually one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen and one of the most, like, violent and dangerous things I've ever seen. In that valley in Afghanistan, the mountains are beautiful, and, you know, it's one of those places where, you know, there's not a lot of city light. So when you look up at the sky, it's just ablaze with stars. And then when the sun comes out, it's that beautiful ripples and rays of yellow and orange and pink and blue and purple. And it's just kind of like a painter couldn't paint a more beautiful thing. And so that's what I see that morning before everything goes dark.
And, you know, it went dark because it's a violent place, and there's literally bombs buried in the ground, like, everywhere. And it's just a really kind of sad reality. But I hoped to kind of put a note of optimism in there that, you know, beauty can be found in one of the most dangerous places. And I guess the same is true. Danger can be found in the most beautiful places. But that was kind of, to me, that was the irony of that moment. It's like that. Just. What is it? A couple hours earlier, I saw the most beautiful thing I had ever seen in my life. And then a couple hours later, I didn't see anything for the rest of my life. I think there's an interesting juxtaposition there.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I very much can appreciate that. And the, the juxtaposition. You talk about juxtapositions. The juxtaposition of fire and water is not lost on me either. The word fire runs through your book from, from explosions to, to inner drive. What does fire mean to you today?
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Man, that is a really deep insight.
You know, I think, you know, fire is one of those, it's utilized quite a bit in like, stoic philosophy. Marcus Aurelius talks about it a lot. I, I, I like it kind of, it applies in a lot of different ways to me. I think what I like about the notion of fire is that fire is really powerful in it. Fire is like, hard to explain. It's constantly beautiful. It's really interesting. It's always moving.
Um, but what I really like about it is that it requires careful attention and nurture. Like if you, anybody who's, if you try to, try to start a fire without the tools, it's almost impossible. Um, and then once you get it going, it's a very beautiful and violent and powerful thing. But it's very fragile. If the wind gusts, it can take it out. If you don't give it the right fuel, it can blow out. So you kind of need to pay attention to it. So I think, you know, this idea that we all have fire inside, this passion, this drive that's, that's a part of it, but it has to be nurtured. And it's always new. Every day is a new day. You can't, you can't set and forget anything in your life. You need to pay attention to it, you need to nurture it, you need to vector it, and you need to kind of constantly be aware of it. I think. So. It's, for me, the fire inside is powerful. It's something I'm always aware of, but I'm always aware of like, that kind of a growth mindset on it. Like I've got to continually nurture it, otherwise it'll go out. Does it make sense?
[00:17:09] Speaker A: Oh, absolutely, yeah. I think it's a wonderful way to think about it and something I'm going to take. I love that now you're confronted with a whole new reality that, and in some of the worst situations come some of the deepest revelations. I'm curious to understand how you were able to deal with the trauma of that re peace and identity, the time it took to find a new you, because I think we haven't all gone through the same or we'll go through the same experience as you, but others will have analogous tragedies or even just very challenging life situations. And I am a firm believer that that's when something new and special can grow if given the opportunity.
I would love to hear how you internally and mentally really went through that process.
[00:18:15] Speaker B: So I think it was a two step process. And I was very lucky to have the opportunity to go into Paralympic sport because two things happened. One, when I was first in the hospital, I sort of hit really hard the dynamic of disability. You know, that word got thrown around a lot. I'm going to be blind for the rest of my life. People are talking about Social Security disability and I'm gonna have to get out of the military. And there are a lot of people were like, really? People were crying about it. And I, I, I felt this thing and didn't like it and didn't want it at all. And I wanted just desperately to break away from that as quickly as possible. I don't want anyone to pity me. I don't want to be a victim. I don't want a handout. I just want an opportunity to succeed. I don't want to be put in this box that carries with it a bunch of schema. Disability, I think worldwide and especially in the US carries with it this a set of unhealthy schema. You see somebody in a wheelchair, you see somebody who's blind, you see somebody with an ailment, you immediately kind of snap to. I want to pity that person. They obviously need help, they're not particularly useful, so on and so forth. There's no place for them. All these sorts of things are wrapped around the concept of disability. Want any of that? I wanted to break away from that as quickly as possible.
And I got lucky that Paralympics more or less fell in my lap. Someone offered me the opportunity to compete in adaptive sport. It was only a year out from the Paralympic Games. Based on the athlete that I was and based on the nature of my disability and a handful of other things, I was able to kind of quickly get into the world rankings, the national team and go on to the Paralympics. And that was incredible. And I was able to kind of break out of that box. But the second step of this whole thing was I never really wrestled with the big things you're getting at, the identity, the trauma, the pivot, the what am I now? Kind of thing. I never really did any of that in the first year. It looked like I did because I started to succeed, but I hadn't, I had just kind of jumped into something else. Um, and I. I jumped into swimming and I jumped into preparation. And I think the good part of that was it gave me the space.
It gave me space and it gave me confidence. It allowed me to step away from the box of disability and say, no, I can succeed and I can be a leader, and I still can be much of what I was before. But a lot of that came crashing down after the Games, and I went home and I started struggling with the basics, like washing dishes and finding my way around, and I wasn't sure.
[00:20:39] Speaker A: So this was after the 2012 Games?
[00:20:42] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah, that's.
[00:20:44] Speaker A: You won gold in 2012 in the Paralympic Games, which you're humbly not saying, and notably the year, anniversary of. Of your accident.
[00:20:57] Speaker B: Yeah, thank you.
[00:20:58] Speaker A: Crazy.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: I.
Yeah, like, I did gloss over, but it was a crazy. It was just a crazy year.
I remember the first phone call that someone said, hey, would you be interested in Paralympics? My. My gut reaction was, no. I've got all this other stuff I need to do. I need to figure out how to use a computer. I need to figure out how to get into grad school. Cause I figured I had to go to grad school to get a real.
I had all these big things I needed to figure out. And Paralympics kind of felt like a hobby. Sports felt like a hobby at that point. And I was like, I don't have no time for that. And they kind of. They said, well, if. Are you interested in competing in Paralympics? I said, oh, yeah, that sounds nice. And they said, well, if you want to do it, you got to do it now, because if you're. If you don't, if, you know in a month, you won't be eligible. I said, all right, well, let's give it a go. And that led to, well, if you want. If you go to this meet, then you qualify for the nationals, I'll go to the nationals. Well, if you get. Do well enough at the nationals, you go to the trials. Well, I'll go to the trials. And that one thing led to another, and before I really caught up with what was happening, I was in London, and we're racing, and I, you know, I have a chance to win, and if I just kind of swim a great race, I might win. And then I won. And I was, like, just kind of constantly a little bit on my heels, like, I can't believe all this is happening. And so then.
And. And that really did change my life. Like, all of a sudden, people are asking me to come and speak, and there's a Wikipedia page and all this stuff's kind of. Kind of happened before. I really was caught up to it.
And so as the dust is settling afterward, I moved to Baltimore with my brother, and I have a little bit of time and I'm working my way out of the Navy. I was still in the Navy at this point. All these sorts of things were kind of getting sorted out. And that's where I really started to wrestle with the, oh, my God, like, what am I going to do with my life? Who. Who can I be? How can I date? How can I get a job? How can I find a place in here that's relevant, impactful, that's challenging? And so on and so forth.
And I had a handful of moments over that probably next two years where I felt really low about that, but started to piece it together. And honestly, the through line was always sports. I always had that to do, had that to focus on, had that as my, you know, the way that I, I do that growth mindset thing, like, here's what my goal is, here's what my challenge is. I have to work really hard at this thing to, to see that growth and work towards something, nurture that fire.
Um, and I, through, I think through that process, it was a long process, I mean, and, and elements of that process are still being worked out. You know, it's 14 years ago. I still have sensitivities about burdening other people or feeling like I'm having an impact or being authentic and all of those things. Just like the fire, like, you always have to nurture those things and kind of working that all out. But a lot of it happened after the games.
[00:23:43] Speaker A: People, People never really ask, well, what happened after the success? Because you get home and there's still laundry.
What do you do about that? And, okay, well, crazy question. How did you approach dating?
[00:23:57] Speaker B: Kind of all of the ways I, I did nothing for a while, and then I, I did app stuff for a while.
I, I kind of said, let me just see what the universe brings, or then sometimes I would be aggressive about it. And I, I kind of put myself out there sometimes and it, it, it worked a little bit here and there, and it didn't work a little bit here and there. I think I had honestly kind of given up for a moment when a kind of a, A crazy set of events happened. I, I met a woman on a plane. This is not my wife, but I. She's a wonderful woman, kind of instant friend on a flight from Vegas back to Baltimore, where I was living, you know, kind of on. When you meet someone on A plane, you think, like, I'll probably never see this person ever again. So I gave her a hug after the flight and never thought I'd see her again. Six months, eight months later, I randomly bumped into her at a CrossFit gym down where I had moved in Annapolis. And she runs over and she's like, brad, it's Amy from the plane. And if I'm honest, at first I didn't remember Amy from the plane, but then like connected the dots and thought, wow, how cool is that? Uh, and we'd gotten coffee and she had said this. At the end of coffee, she's like, are you single? And I thought, I don't even want to say because, you know, this sort of being set up thing never really works. But I said, yeah, right. And she said, I've got someone for you. So she introduced me to Sarah. Sarah and I went to coffee in case we didn't like each other. Coffee ended up lasting three hours. After coffee, my wife or my now wife, I spoiled the story. She says, this is going great, but I have to go to Target to get something. You want to go? I said, sure. And then after Target, she was like, this is going great, but I have to go to the grocery store. Do you want to go to the grocery store with me? I said, sure. And it's like we've kind of been attached at the hip, but like we, our first date was basically being married, I think, just going to coffee in the grocery store.
[00:25:48] Speaker A: Oh, that's incredible. And I, I, I ask because I actually have a friend who's a blind golf world champion and his journey into. He really thought about who he could date and what that, what that person would need to bring. And so I asked out of curiosity and you, you talked about not wanting to be dependent or a burden or, And I can, you know, he, the way he sort of quantified that was he feels that interdependence is critical to the human condition and that we're all going to be better off if we are interdependent and that by allowing people to help him, it actually helps them too. So that was his way to process it. Does any of that resonate with you?
[00:26:34] Speaker B: It does. It's a very mature perspective. I think that's kind of been one of my main issues throughout the 14 years of being blind is I think I'm naturally independent, but then I do have sort of a sensitivity of as a person with a disability, as a blind person, I don't want to feel like I'm unduly burdening literally anyone. I don't want a handout. I don't want anyone to, like, change their path, according to me. I just want everyone to do their thing, and I want to be able to do my thing independently.
In many ways, I think I don't know where that came from, but early on in my blind rehab journey was, like, I was fierce about.
I don't want another human helping me with a task. I want to be able to do it independently. I want to be able to determine what color things are. I want to be able to cook. I want to be able to do my laundry and all the basic life skills with literally nobody else. I felt like that was the measure of.
Maybe it was like, I've gotten back to my original capability or something along those lines. But I think throughout that journey, you realize, like, there are just things that you cannot do. And I think that the. The hardest part of all of that has been being married and having a child.
And there are just a lot of things with a child I literally can't do. Especially when or when she was young, like when she was 18 months and she started. My daughter, she's starting to wander and, like, be wobbly. I was just mortified all the time because, like, I can't if. What if she falls? I can't see her. I remember having a tough conversation with my wife. She's like, you should take her outside and play. I was like, I can't.
Because if she walks away, what if she walks into the wood line and she gets bit by a snake or something? I can't find her. You know, I can't get to her quick enough. And then even if she's hurt, what. I can't see what's going on, I have to.
I have to find help. So, like, I think that's a situation where you have to be honest with what you can and can't do. And maybe this ideal of independence is nice in my mind, but it's not practical. And to be dishonest with that is to put my daughter at risk. So I have to be really cognizant of that, and I have to be very open about that and work out a very productive level of interdependence with my wife, especially as it pertains to the care of my daughter. And again, that's another work in progress. I think your friends got it a lot better worked out than I do. I'm at least aware of that, but I don't. I'm sure my wife would tell you I don't do that particularly well most of the time.
[00:29:00] Speaker A: Well, everybody's different. And I will say there's similarities in the story around having children and what you can and can't do. And he was busy finding creative ways. So when his children are old enough, they can read cooking recipes to him and they can help him, or they help him with menus and it becomes interactive that way. But yes, it's. How can you not think through that? There's no way not to face that.
So we can appreciate that your book uses the word Inshallah. God willing, how did faith or your relationship with something bigger than yourself, you know, help or change after the injury? Where does it sit with you?
[00:29:44] Speaker B: I think that I.
I don't know where it came from, but I had adopted. I have adopted sort of a secular and stoic outlook from a long time ago. I don't know if that came from being an athlete or being in the military or something, but I've always had a here's my world.
Here are all the variables in play. Here are the desired outcomes. Here's how to flip the switches and make the variables move towards the desired outcome. And I'll control what I can control and completely let go of what I can't. I've had that very practical outlook for quite some time. That's definitely not in such an explicit way, the way they train BOM techs, that's how you have to think about navigating a potential explosive. You really do have to think about the complexity of the situation as baked down into a series of variables, and you start to kind of bite away at the problem, variable by variable, learning to control what you can control and letting go of the things that you can't. So I've always had that outlook. That said, as you kind of navigate my story or whatever, you talk about Inshallah in Iraq and just things that happen that are really so much bigger than you. Going back to that image of the juxtaposition of the mountains of Afghanistan and that sunrise, and then to be blind just a couple hours, hours later.
I think that my life has been a constant tension between those two ideals. Like a practical, tactical level of here's how I can control my life, but a consistent acknowledgment of, boy, there are just really big things going on.
So to me, Inshallah is not necessarily a nod at a particular deity, but rather just an openness to the time and tide of fortune. You know, things are just going to happen to you and, you know, try as you might to control and drive toward a particular desired outcome. It's not always going to be the case. And if you hold on too tight and try too hard to control things, you're going to end up disappointed and frustrated with the way things turn out.
So you have to be open to the fact that things like blindness or significant loss are going to happen. But at the same time, if you don't exercise some level of control or ownership over your life, you're basically just afloat with no, no tether or no rudder. So I think there's a nice beautiful tension between those two things. And I, again, it's just like the fire and the nurture. Like I think I tend to grab hold tight and I kind of have to constantly counsel myself to say just to let go and let certain things happen. Back to parenting. Boy, oh boy, is that, that the case with parenting? There's a lot of times where, like with getting my daughter ready in the morning, I'm constantly aware of two things. One, we need to go. Like we need to get in the car and go to school because it's 8:05 and we need to be there by 8:15. But I'm also aware of I need to nurture her autonomy and her ability to do things for herself.
So I'm constantly in that tension of I could just put your shoes on for you, but then I would be in encroaching on your autonomy. Rooney, please put on your shoes, like let's put on your shoes and go kind of thing. So existing in that tension is a constant thing. I think parenting is a great example of it.
[00:32:59] Speaker A: I love that existing in that tension. And I guess that's where growth can happen. Right.
And that really explains how you have been able to push at different points and achieve at different points.
It sounds like you want that control, but then it's. And you want to push and you have those goals. But then every so often one has to pull back and go, I can't control that. That didn't go quite the right way. Okay, I understand that. And in that, in that tension is where the good stuff happens.
[00:33:31] Speaker B: Yeah. And I think when you let go, you can't just dismiss. You have to let go and be open to what happens. Just you have to still be present and engaged without trying to drive it in a particular way. I'm not, I'm not explaining that one particularly well, but I'm not saying there are not in, in the relinquishing of control. It's not me stepping away. It's Just me stepping back, I guess.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: Yep, yep, yep. And then. And then being open to. To then what happens and processing what happens and being okay with that and being able to move in the good directions that that presents. And that's how I'm hearing it.
[00:34:08] Speaker B: Yeah, a hundred percent.
[00:34:09] Speaker A: Now, you mentioned loss. You lost teammates in Afghanistan. And how. How do you carry that grief while. While still choosing to live fully?
[00:34:19] Speaker B: For me, I carry them with me as, like, ghosts. They're always around, and I can kind of look at them, and they're always present in what's going on. And in many ways, I feel like the way that I live my life is a way of honoring them.
To make the most of everything I'm doing, to live a life of meaning, to not throw away reps, just to make sure that I'm always putting myself towards something of value and living according to a strict set of standards, being a person of integrity, all of those sorts of things are a way of saying, you know, kind of thank you in a sense. You know, many, many, not just my friends, but, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of people have done the honorable thing of saying, I'm going to protect us, and, you know, didn't come back for whatever reason. And I want to live in a way that acknowledges that sacrifice by living, you know, living intensely. I guess at any point, I feel like maybe I'm misdirected or I'm not engaged or I'm in a valley as opposed to up on top of the mountain. I can look at those ghosts and sort of say, you know, is this something you would be proud of? And if they nod, then I'm doing the right thing. And if they shake their head, then I know I need to course correct. And to me, that. That relinquishes or distinguishes what is it? No, extinguishes the guilt. Like, I don't feel guilty about that loss. I'm certainly sad about it. But I make up for it, I hope, with living a good life and carrying them with me.
There's this. I don't know where this exactly comes from, but, like, if you.
I feel like I was in a classroom somewhere and we were reading the Iliad or as the Odyssey, one of those two books. And somewhere out of that, someone says, you know, you. Every person dies twice.
You die the time that your physical being ceases to exist, and then you die the second time, the last time someone says your name.
So, like, every time someone says Achilles, Achilles lives on. Achilles will never die in that sense, because we keep Saying Achilles. And so I thought that was really impactful. And so to me, like, my buddy Tyler will never die so long as I'm alive, because I say Tyler all the time. I carry him with me or my buddy Scotty or Jason or any of those other guys. You keep them alive by remembering them and saying their name. Does it make sense?
[00:36:51] Speaker A: Absolutely.
How powerful to have almost spirit guides, in a way?
[00:36:56] Speaker B: Yes, 100%.
[00:36:58] Speaker A: It's a beautiful way to honor them and keep that alive, literally, I guess. What does service mean to you now? Because having gone into the military, I mean, you tragically lost teammates, you have lost your sight.
Does it still feel like it was the right move? Are you.
[00:37:24] Speaker B: This is a really interesting question. And I've spent the last, like, eight years in and out of grad school trying to make sense of that.
[00:37:33] Speaker A: Okay. Yep.
[00:37:35] Speaker B: I think at the philosophical level, the virtue level, the who am I? Level, kind of, what is service to me? Service to me is integral to who I am. Go back to the example bestowed upon me by my grandparents and their service and the way we grew up. We grew up knowing that sort of like, the most noble thing you can do with your life is help other people in any way. My mom was a nurse. I mean, just being a nurse is a virtuous thing. Caring for other people, that's the way I grew up. And I will never not live my life according to that ideal. The best thing I can do, the good life, is to serve people in a variety of ways. And serving doesn't always mean military or nurse. Just like being inspirational or leading people or making the world a better place, serving people food, donating money, all those sorts of good things. Putting other people above yourself. To me, a service. And that's who I'll always be. And I have zero regret about any of that. And I feel very proud of my military service.
I feel very proud of the time I spent in Iraq and Afghanistan and the things we did. And no, no iota of regret about any of those sorts of things. And I said this in the beginning. I wouldn't take any of it back. You know, I knew when I went into that field that harm was a potential reality that I would face. And I'm okay with that. And I'm okay with that after the fact, and I was okay with it then. So all of that's good. I.
You know, I have a lot of outstanding questions about foreign policy when we make these big decisions about intervention in Iraq or counterterrorism operations abroad or in South America, or vis A vis China or Russia or vis. A vis Iraq, excuse me, Iran and all of these sorts of things. I think for most of the time that I was in the service, I didn't think about that stuff at all. I really saw my job as services. Noble. Military services Noble. And part of being a part of the military is saying, yes sir and no sir. And if I'm sent to Iraq, I'm sent to Iraq and I do my job and I do a good job. And that's noble.
It's after the fact, you start to ask these questions of like what it's all, what it's all worth. And when people like Tyler or Jason or Scotty don't come back, you know, there is some level of frustration in saying, well, could that have been avoided and was that the most appropriate thing to do and was there a worthwhile and justifiable outcome there?
And unfortunately, I think in many of, in many ways in our generation, a lot of those answers are no. And so I have a lot of concerns about recent history and I have even more concerns about what's going on right now and how that projects forward. And so that's an element of what I'm really digged in or dug into now is how to make sense of the sacrifices of my generation and how to make sure that's not for, not for nil, that those lessons are learned and that the way we conduct ourselves as a country, especially as it pertains to foreign policy, accounts for that. You know, personally, you know, I've got Tyler and Scott and Jason and all them with me with all of my personal endeavors. I'm sad to say I do not think that those ghosts are informing our current foreign policy.
And that's something I'm committed to changing.
[00:41:02] Speaker A: So talk more about that. I know you have been pursuing or pursued a Ph.D. at Princeton and is, has that been part of it? Has that been the central theme?
[00:41:15] Speaker B: In many ways, yes. In some ways, no. I'm still. Literally what I was doing before I came onto this podcast was working on that dissertation. I am in the throes of that goal.
I'm abd. Yep. And I am, I'm in the. I would say I'm in. I'm in the final stretch. I've done all my data collection. I've got good chunks of the whole thing written. I have a lot of it all in my head and the challenge now to get it all together in a book length thing that is coherent and is defensible and all of that. So I feel very good about where the project is. But the goal for the year is to get that done and off the table. But it's the core of it is applied ethics not asking questions of when is it or isn't appropriate to justify use of violent force, but rather how do people think about that when faced with those dilemmas in service, like in, in my world, in the global war on terror, there's all kinds of these, either fictional or real dilemmas as it pertains to the use of force. Do you send in a drone strike or do you use ground troops? Do you drop a nuclear weapon or do you not drop a nuclear weapon? Do you, you know, that, that sort of thing. And I try, I'm trying to incorporate or develop a mo. Not develop, but you know, showcase a model that explains how just your layperson would think through a situation like that and validate the idea that this seems relatively obvious. But if, you know, in basically all the literature, either philosophical or sociological, we don't think about these things the same way. If you ask a hundred people what would you do in this case? You're going to get a bell curve of thoughts. And my model seeks to validate the idea that there is moral plurality in our society and that needs to be accounted for in the way we make military decisions. And that the punchline is fighting by a unrestrictive paradigm, meaning we kind of kill a little bit liberally, jeopardizes the force because some element, some contingent of your group are not going to approve of the things that you're doing, whether it's drone strikes or full on large scale warfare or whatever else. Does it make sense?
[00:43:18] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I love the term moral plurality.
Yes.
[00:43:23] Speaker B: It gets caught in the tongue for sure.
[00:43:25] Speaker A: Sorry. Yes. But I'll work on that.
But that just, that is a concept. I mean you could have perfectly upstanding, highly intelligent people, but have 10 different approaches and they all seem valid. Where do you find the right one?
[00:43:39] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:43:40] Speaker A: It makes perfect sense and I'm just grateful that there's somebody like you that is actually thinking through that and you know, hopefully that that comes to some better end point having having done it and you're clearly brilliant and that will happen and that'll be maybe 10 years down the line. We'll, we'll be talking again and, and there'll be better ways to make military decisions or any decision. I hope that, I hope that for the work that you're doing.
[00:44:09] Speaker B: I certainly hope that too. And I hope that you'll tell my committee that I'm brilliant As well, absolutely.
[00:44:14] Speaker A: 100%.
[00:44:15] Speaker B: That's what I have to prove to them in a matter of six months.
[00:44:17] Speaker A: No problem. I can be persuasive. Let me add it.
[00:44:21] Speaker B: Thank you.
[00:44:22] Speaker A: Looking back, what was the first moment you realized I might actually be okay? I'm gonna be okay. What was that moment?
[00:44:29] Speaker B: It was right away.
Yeah, I.
Not immediately. I remember everything up to the blast. And there was a moment. There was a moment where I thought I was dead, and that was a long moment. And that was a moment of all kinds of wandering thoughts about, wow, this has been a great life, and, oh, this is what it feels like to die. And I wonder who's gonna take me across, and I think it's gonna be my grandpa and all that sort of thing. And then shortly thereafter, there was some. That fading, Fading euphoria of being dead and a realization that I'm alive. And that quickly turned into panic. I could kind of feel that my. My face was pretty messed up. I knew that I had been blown up, and I knew that, God, there's gotta be something really wrong, and that just terrifies me. And so I was really on the verge of panic for a moment. And then my buddy Adam came over to me. He was the first to find me. He's like my. My bomb squad partner. He came down to me, and I kind of like. I remember grabbing him in a bit of a panic, saying, how bad is it? You know? And he. There was something in his voice. He somehow was like, super cool. He was like, brad, I'm not gonna lie to you. Your face is pretty messed up, but the rest of you looks fine. Do you think you can stand up? I remember him saying that, and there was just something in his voice. Just kind of put me at ease of, all right, this is. This is a problem. We've been in problems like this thousands of times.
Adam doesn't seem to be flapped about it. I shouldn't be flapped about it either.
You know, let me. Let me help. And then there was a recognition too. Like, now I'm kind of in his way.
We're used to dealing with problems. I'm used to being the person dealing with the problem and not the problem.
Yeah. And I was like, ah, this sucks. I'm the problem.
Like, I don't want to be the problem.
And then I was able to stand up with Adam's help. And then I remember kind of being like, all right, let me start to kind of grab back ownership of my reality.
But that. That was the moment. Was Adam on top of Me saying, yeah, I mean, you're not, you don't look good, but you're not dead and you're fine and you're going to be fine. That. I think from that moment, I knew I would be some version of fine. Now that that version evolved as we already talked about. But that was the moment for me pretty much right afterward.
[00:46:44] Speaker A: Wow. Incredible.
And then, so, as if your swimming wasn't hard enough, you were 2016.
Rio 2016 was your last swimming Olympics.
And then you thought, you know what? I'll try triathlon. That seems like a great idea.
Let's add a bike in here and some running and a guide and more equipment and I mean, exciting. But what pulled you that way?
[00:47:18] Speaker B: I think when you put it in terms like that, it sounds like a great idea, right?
[00:47:21] Speaker A: Does it? Yeah, I know. Well, it sounds like a lot. It sounds. That's a huge undertaking.
[00:47:28] Speaker B: I think the decision was very layered when I finished.
I've always had, I've always been an ambitious athlete. I would say from the age of 11 to 17.
For much of that time, I trained with the idea that I would one day be on the Olympic team. That's kind of the mentality I had. I'm gonna go to trials and one day I'm gonna be like Larson Jensen or Tom Dolan or whoever my swimming heroes were. And I actually trained with a guy who was really intent on making the Olympic team for two, for a while. So we really had that, that fire. We're, we're going to make the Olympic team one day.
But as I started to approach college and as my buddy who was way better than me, continued to just fall this just a little bit, tiny bit short of making the Olympic team, I knew that I'm not making, I'm not going to make the Olympic team. And this was during the Phelps era. And it was just so hard. And I'm not even close. I'm not even in the top hundred at that point.
So I knew I'd have a good college career. But. And I, I did. I, I was a. I had a great college career and I felt like I have, I have something. I am a good athlete. When I finished college, I was like, maybe I picked the wrong thing. Like, maybe I'm not going to be on the Olympic team for swimming, but I'm a pretty good runner. If I could just throw a bike in the mix, maybe I could be a great, you know, elite level triathlete. And when I came out of college, after the first couple years out of college, I Thought, actually what I'm going to be really good at is long distance triathlon because I have a lot of endurance. It doesn't matter how big you are, it has all to do with how, how willing are you to punish yourself in training and how, you know, can you, can you, can you just go for a really long period of time? And I was like, that is me. I can just go for a really long period of time. And so I started training with the idea of qualifying for like Half Iron Nationals, which was down in Clearwater, Florida at the time where I'm from.
And then just as military training would go, I, I was, I was not able to ever commit to a big race. Cause like deployments move around and all this sort of stuff. So just logistically I never worked it out of competing at the level that I wanted to compete at. But that dream was in the back of my mind. Fast forward to after Rio.
I really had the games I wanted as a blind para athlete. I met all of my goals. I won all the freestyle events. I broke a record. I trained really hard for five years towards that goal. And afterward I just felt like, you know, what am I?
What is, what is igniting that fire to use that. I'm really glad you brought that into this conversation. What, what's, what's lighting my fire? And the idea of swimming back and forth in the pool at that point, just. I don't, I don't know what I was, I didn't know what I was trying to do. What was that thing? You know, for me, the growth mindset's always like, you gotta set a goal you're afraid of.
If I'm not afraid of the goal, then it's not worthwhile. I do that in the gym too. Like if I'm not putting enough weight on the bar where I'm afraid of it, then it's not enough.
You have to be a little bit afraid of it, otherwise you're not pushing yourself far enough. And the fact is, after Rio, I wasn't afraid of the pool. I just don't know what I was. I don't know what. It wasn't lighting my fire. And I kind of remembered that dream of being really good at triathlon. And as it turned out, the head coach of the national team at that point was Mark Sortino, who's a Naval Academy graduate. So he was a friendly face, an easy person to email. He immediately emailed me back and said, absolutely, come on out for a camp and will get you going. And I loved it. I loved Starting back at the bottom, I was terrible at it. I screwed everything up. I wasn't good at getting on the bike. Getting on a tandem bike is hard. Swimming with a tether is hard. Running, after all that activity was hard and I was terrible at it. And I liked being at the bottom again and trying to figure out all these new skills and it was awesome. And it was everything I wanted. And I tell you in a lot of my speeches and this kind of thing, I talk a lot about growth, mindset and setting that goal you're afraid of and working your way towards it. And triathlon was all of those things for a long period of time. I thought it was going to be four years, ended up being five years. But it worked out right in that.
[00:51:27] Speaker A: That learning curve at the beginning when you realize you're really not that good compared to everybody else. There's nothing more satisfying than that saying, right, I'm going to get a hold of this and really attack it. Then the learning curve's quick. I mean, it starts quick, but then it's a law of diminishing returns to some degree.
And that's when it starts to get difficult. When did it get difficult?
[00:51:51] Speaker B: It's a tricky one because it was a weird journey. Like you said, I was kind of a hot mess on the first camp. I didn't know how to do any of the basics, get the helmet on or get shoes on or get onto the bike. And we just looked really goofy on all of the different elements of the whole thing throughout the camp.
But I was able to put a put together enough repeat time kind of stuff to say, I've got potential, I just need to figure these things out. I started racing in off the bat on the racing scheme. I was kind of in the 8 to 8 to 12 consistently.
And then I started to piece things together and felt like I was getting a hold of it when Covid happened. In fact, I was down. The day that the world shut down for us was March 14, 2020.
Right. I, my wife and I and my guide were all down in Florida on the eve of a race, which I really thought was going to be kind of like a breakout race for me. Triathlon, unlike swimming, is very seasonal. So you have like an in season of racing and then you have the off season during the winter. And I'd had a great winter. I really focused on the bike and developing, developing VO2 max and power on the bike. And I felt like my, my numbers were coming along and this is going to be this, the bike from the Beginning was the weak point. And I felt like I'm gonna break out and just like really kind of get into the thick of racing.
And then Covid happened and we didn't race. And so then I went back into the garage and just kind of trained on my own. No racing for almost like, what, two years?
And so I. I really never. Yeah, and I. I really never really got a sense of like, where am I at? So I think that that curve happened invisibly. I didn't have. I didn't know what was going on. And then when we came back to racing, I sort of shot up to the top four. Top six timeframe when we were racing, and everyone kind of thought you came out of nowhere. And I was like, well, to you maybe, but to me, I mean, I've been putting the work. I mean, I've been grinding this whole time. You know what I mean? It's not just out of nowhere. I've been putting in the work so long, answer to your question. But I think it happened during COVID in my garage.
[00:53:58] Speaker A: That's mental discipline right there. I can imagine what a huge letdown the races on, you know, the following day. That must have been gut wrenching.
[00:54:06] Speaker B: You don't want to dive into the victim thing too much because the whole world was like, oh, my God, like, what's going on? And, you know, at the time, the prevalent imagery of the moment was all these frontline nurses and doctors dealing with all of the COVID patients in the hospitals. And remember, remember there was all the, like, we need to get respirators out everywhere, because everybody who gets Covid is like, on the verge of their life and all that. So, like, we didn't. I mean, it was kind of like, well, no race, but good God, like, how many people are going to die from this? That was kind of the thing back then.
[00:54:38] Speaker A: No, you're absolutely right. And we. We didn't know. We didn't know how long that was going to be either. So you didn't know it was going to be two years in a basement?
[00:54:44] Speaker B: No, I think everyone thought. I mean, at the time, it's when I got into Princeton, I remember we. When I got into grad school at Princeton, they were kind of adamant about, yeah, when the fall term starts, we're gonna be in school. Like, the grad school will be in person. And I was like, are you sure about that? And they're like, grad school's gonna be in person. I was like, you real sure about that? Are you listening to this CUOMO guy like, this doesn't sound good. It's like, grad school's gonna be in person. I was like, all right. So we sold my house in Annapolis. My wife and I moved up to Princeton. Within a matter of weeks of getting into our new house, they were like, turns out we're gonna be remote for what turned out to be a long, long time. So I was like, why did we move? We could have just done this monopoly, but it is what it is.
[00:55:26] Speaker A: But you're right. There were bigger, bigger, bigger issues. But now in your triathlon, you've talked about wanting to be very independent and you want to do things yourself. Obviously, with the triathlon, you have a guide at 40 miles an hour on a bike, you're really trusting someone.
[00:55:42] Speaker B: Oh, a hundred percent.
[00:55:43] Speaker A: What has that taught you about control and surrender in that environment?
[00:55:50] Speaker B: So I should eat crow in that, right? So the triathlon forces you really to find that. That golden level of interdependence between the guide and the athlete. And I do think it. It was so rewarding being a career individual athlete, you know, up to that point, always kind of. And predominantly swimming, where you have. Especially as a blind swimmer, you have no idea how the race is unfolding.
To be doing that in the sport of triathlon, where you definitely know what's going on with the race and you're responding to your.
Your competitors. And to do that alongside a guide, where you're literally stroke for stroke, pedal, pedal, pedal, pedal for pedal, and what do you call it on the run, you know, stride for stride with somebody else, it really does force you to think about it differently. But the reward was so much better. It really did feel like we're a team, and each member of this team has a distinct responsibility. Greg has certain things he needs to do. The line of the swimming, you know, the. A lot of the transition work is his. My job is mostly stay out of the way, operate as consistently as I can.
At the peak of how fast I can go. And it was really rewarding to kind of work through that. It was definitely another element of it. It's not just two people working hard next to each other. It's two people of a team. Just like an illusion or a bobsled. Each person kind of has to do various things. And going back to that rowing thing, when it works, it's like swing. It's so cool when you really do feel like we are moving together as one. For Tokyo, Greg and I, you know, coming out of COVID my guide was someone else up until right out of COVID and I got introduced to Greg. We didn't even know each other coming into that season. And the first couple races we did didn't go particularly great. And we sort of did have to find this dynamic together over a matter of months. The thing where it really sealed the deal was we went to kona for 11 days before going to Tokyo. And that ended up being the most consequential 11 days of the whole journey of triathlon, because we lived, trained, ate, and slept basically together for 11 days. And we really, like, melded, for sure. By the time we were racing in Tokyo, we were very much in each other's head about how this was supposed to work and what everyone was supposed to do and how exactly to not only do triathlon, but to do that particular race. We had really dialed into. How is that race in Tokyo Bay and on that track gonna work? It just. The race we did in Tokyo was exactly what we drew up on the white race board before. And that's why one, I think it just really was a perfect execution of what we dreamed up at the beginning of Kona.
[00:58:28] Speaker A: The strategy was good and execution was good.
[00:58:31] Speaker B: Yes, Exactly.
[00:58:33] Speaker A: So that 11 days, that's actually really interesting to me. I'm always interested how partnerships can be better and how they form and how they can be optimized. Did you have disagreements through those 11 days? Did you work through stuff that you came out the other end? I always feel like there has to be a little bit of a storming phase where you clash a little bit to get to the real stuff.
[00:58:59] Speaker B: I think not as much. It was a very condensed period, but I think that there.
It was sort of trial by fire. We raced only a.
We raced two or three times before the stakes started jumping up. And we screwed up pretty significant things on the race course, both he and I. And I think that to the extent that you're talking about storming, there was a.
It's different than interpersonal conflict, right? It's not like we disagree on something. It's like someone screwed up, and the person who didn't screw up has to give them the grace, and the person who did screw up has to assert ownership. Like, that was me, and here's how we're gonna fix it. And so, like, for instance, our first race together in leads, he took a wrong turn, and we ended up kind of biffing up. We were actually winning at one point, took the wrong turn, watched from behind us. The rest of the.
The group go by, and we're like, ah, dang, it four.
[01:00:04] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:00:04] Speaker B: So that was a bust on him. I think that was a. He was trying too hard and didn't do enough prep on the. On the course.
And then there was a race where in la, I was. I was overdriving from the back. In the back, they kind of train you to just follow the lean of the guy in front of you and don't actually overdo it. I think I was kind of getting over aggressive in the back, and it really threw us off.
I actually twerked a handlebar. Our handlebar was broken because of this. So that really threw us off in the race. Didn't go great in the bike. So anyway, I say these kinds of things to say. Yeah, I think trial by fire, we were goofing up little things on the race course, but each time made a commitment to owning the failure, fixing the failure, and marching on and giving each other grace in that time period. And that allowed us to grow.
[01:00:55] Speaker A: I think that's wonderfully put. So you've been a Navy officer, war hero, Paralympic champion.
What are you chasing now?
[01:01:05] Speaker B: Well, we talked about it. That dissertation is first and foremost on my mind. You know, I've been at that now since 2020, so it's six years, so I got to get that done.
And the other. The other part of it is back to the metaphor you invoked about fire and that kind of just striving for that. That balance, existing in that tension. There's always constant demands on my time, whether it's training, sports governance, dissertation, or predominantly my number one focus, my family. Being a good husband and being a good dad and trying to exist in that balance in a way that appropriately nurtures all the things that I care about. Be a good dad, be a good example to my daughter, keep my cool, you know, give her the right guidance, but also give her the right space, all that sort of stuff. So those are. That's my. My daily challenge. And just like the fire, like, I don't have it figured out, but we're just kind of nurturing it and. And letting it grow. And I think that. I think my fantasy on this right now is I skipped Paris because due to my daughter being young and just, you know, not doing a good job of that balance, I was not in any kind of good shape to do any kind of racing by the time that it would have been important to do for Paris. So we had the. My wife and I had the opportunity to spectate. I do want to come back at it. One more go around, you know, with it being in la, you Know, it's too hard to pass up. And it's a. It's a really elegant kind of opportunity for me as a dad. My daughter will be old enough to, like, really get it. I mean, she kind of gets it now. At four, she'll be almost eight when the Paralympics happen in la, I want to race one more time in something, whether it's swimming or triathlon, and be able to do it with her in the crowd and sort of like pass that flame onto her. That'll be my, this is not me anymore. But now I'm wholly invested in her journey, whether it's music, art, or sports or whatever she wants to get into. I hope that she just adopts that kind of, that growth, mindset kind of mentality. Let's set a goal you're afraid of and go out and chase it and, you know, constantly seek that growth. My hope is to inspire that in her.
[01:03:06] Speaker A: Amazing.
So if someone listening just lost something, their health, their relationship, their future, what would you want them to hear?
[01:03:19] Speaker B: I think there's like, two ways you can always navigate that situation.
For me, my experience with that is in the hospital, learning that I'm going to be blind.
And you can start to think about your world as characterized by now, what's missing?
What will I not be able to do as a blind person? What am I missing out on because I can't see? How am I at a disadvantage relative to everybody else because I can't see?
And all those things are not. They exist. But there's an alternative way of looking at everything and say, let me just take for a moment how be. Let me be grateful for a moment for all the things I still have.
You know, I still have, at that point, still have my life. I still have my limbs and my heart and my brain and my family and people who love me, and opportunities to continue to enjoy the fruits of life and. And challenge myself and to live a rewarding and meaningful life.
I'm grateful for that, and I'm going to take stock in those things and really optimize what I have.
And not all loss is that easy. You know, when you lose someone you love or you have to really work, rework some part of your identity, you know, you can't just move past that too quickly. But I really do think that there's power in reframing your perspective and taking stock in what you're grateful for and orienting on that and being thankful for those things and committing to, you know, for me, those I've lost, I make sense of that by honoring them with the way that I live my life. So it's not for nothing, you know, when I talk to Tyler, it's like I'm making use of your sacrifice by living my good life. And there's a solace in that for me. So I think orienting on that gratitude and then just really committing to, you know, don't waste your time here. We don't know how much time we have, and we don't know why we're here, and we don't know when it's going to end. So you have no reason but to make the most of it. And that doesn't necessarily mean go run a marathon or anything, but it does mean live a life of meaning, commit yourself to other people, be a good person, read books, you know, try to figure out as much of the human experience as you can before your time's up. You know what I mean? And I think in doing so, you know, you live a good life.
[01:05:40] Speaker A: And then, you know, when. When all is said and done, how do you want to be remembered?
[01:05:46] Speaker B: I want to be remembered as someone who is always pushing the boundary, Someone who was really glad to be here, someone who wasn't content to sit back and just let it all happen, but rather kind of be in it and push the boundaries and try to soak up as much of this experience as I can before my time is up. You know what I mean? And I want to do that for myself. But more importantly, I want to inspire other people to push that boundary as well.
Don't be complacent. Don't just fall into a rut and just do your time here, but rather make the most of that time.
[01:06:19] Speaker A: Well, doing this show, I've always been a big believer that the ultimate form of existence is helping others and to find that purpose and to find that meaning. So I think we fully agree on that. And I think, you know, you are just an incredible, phenomenal example of what infinite human means to me, the infinite possibilities of what we can do on this planet while we're here. So this has just been such a pleasure. I've thoroughly enjoyed getting to know you a little bit, and I'm blown away with your authenticity and drive.
It's inspirational in itself. And I can only imagine the thousands and thousands and thousands of people that you will affect over your time.
[01:07:04] Speaker B: So thank you now, thank you for this opportunity. Thank you for the time. You inspire me as well, and I love that concept of the infinite human. So I look forward to keeping in touch with what you're doing as well. And again, thank you so much for the time today.
[01:07:24] Speaker A: This has been Infinite Human with me, Sharona Kerr. Until next time, keep challenging yourself and make others better along the way.
